God's Effectual Call? Part Two

[gb93433]

Even though there may be a desire to serve God in a pastoral capacity. That alone is not sufficient. There are objective qualifications that should confirm or deny the person that responsibility. For one to be a pastor there must be proof of leadership in other ways including making disciples. There must be other practical qualifications such as his home being in order.

A "calling" can be very subjective but proof of leadership is not. There must be an answer to the question, "What qualifications do you have that makes you a good leader?"

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by TomMann:
I do believe that some, anxious to do good works (i.e earn Gods favor,) ... assume a giving (call) that was not made, just as I believe that not everyone who says LORD, LORD, is known of God.

The biggest troublemaker I had in a church was a man who claimed to many that he was called. However his life had no proof of leadership. Initially I bought into it but as I observed his life I phoned the previous pastor and he agreed with what I saw. We came to the conclusion that he was so focused on himself that he was religious and regularly exaggerated. He was a good orator but could not lead people.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by Bible-boy:
So when you boil it down to the basics a guy comes along gives his testimony that the Lord has saved him and states that he feels that God has "called" him to be a pastor and we ordain him. There's a big problem with such a weak process.

Thank you for answering my questions. I agree there is a big problem with the system many times.

I am also glad you are not wanting throw out the "call to ministry" idea altogether either. I agree with a lot of what you state.

I think there is another problem, and perhaps this is a topic for a new thread, in that I have known many guys that meet the qualifications for ministry, and yet have no desire/call/urge/aspiration (however you want to phrase it) and they end up floating here and there. It damages the churches they are a part of and they IMO are not faithfully serving the Lord.

I was very surprised during my MDiv work at seminary the number of people who were there who had absolutely no clue why they were there and they struggled with everything and had nothing but problems in their churches and in their studies.

Also from my perspective it seemed that those who did sense a "call" were the ones who had a passion and motivation to do well in the studies, churches, etc.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
I was very surprised during my MDiv work at seminary the number of people who were there who had absolutely no clue why they were there and they struggled with everything and had nothing but problems in their churches and in their studies.

Also from my perspective it seemed that those who did sense a "call" were the ones who had a passion and motivation to do well in the studies, churches, etc.

I agree. What really shocked me is the number of students who had not even personally discipled one person yet were wanting to go to a church and lead it when they had not won one one person and discipled him. Some had never shared their faith with anyone.

What does that tell us about the condition of the church?

I believe that when pastors start teaching the people the way Jesus did we will have churches that love them and others which run them off. Too many pastors are trying to keep their jobs at the expense of truth and discipleship. Too many leaders think that church is not about surgery about a make me feel good religion and nickels and noses.

An elderly retired pastor once told me that if you have never been run off from a church you probably are not much of a pastor.

 

[TaterTot]

LOL, well then there's hope.

We also met many folks at seminary who didnt "seem" to be "called". Anyone can learn to "be in the ministry", but it takes the Holy Spirit to make our meager efforts prosper