God's Eternal Decree

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by AresMan:
Wow, someone seems to have an axe to grind.

Topics started by Rippon:
Biblical Election
God's Eternal Decree
A.W. Pink On Election ...
Arminianisms
John Richard Rice
Hyper-Calvinists
Hoeksema on Paul's Objectors
God Gives
C.H.S . -- It Is God's Choice ( My Title )
Spurgeon on Faith and Regeneration
A Nettleton Sermon Outline re Divine Decrees

... and others, I'm sure.

And about 95% of them are not his own words. It is all cut and paste. Hey Rippon just leave the link.

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by Brother James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:
Rippon, I can see that the Bible tells us that God has decreed HOW salvation will be accomplished, why it would be accomplished, and what would happen to those who were saved, but I find no place where it indicates that God chose ahead of time WHO would be saved. Yes, He knew, but He knew who would choose what. He allowed that choice to us.

Jane Hawkings (the divorced Christian wife of Stephen Hawkings) put it well: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />With much insight, she notes that if ‘belief in God were automatically decreed by the Creator, the human race would simply be a breed of automatons’ (p. 461). The world God created provided motivation for discovery, and a sense of wonder due to freedom of choice. Jane recognized that, given this freedom, therein lies the heart of the source of suffering and evil. God could eliminate evil, but if He did, freedom of choice also would be eliminated. She stresses that most evil is often reducible ‘to human greed and selfishness’ (p. 461)."

from http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4093/ </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly Helen. Since the fall did not affect our will and our spirit is not really dead we can save ourselves by the simple act of bringing faith from our non-dead spirits and our will which is not really at enmity with God.
</font>[/QUOTE]I am still not sure of the def. of spiritual death and total inability. I still think the proof is not on the calvinist side.

How do you veiw the promise of God the day they ate of the tree of knowedge and evil that they would die? Gen 2:17 This IS clearly spiritual death. Lets see what happened that day. Searching of God (3:8), Interrogation of God (3:11-13), Defense by the Adam and Eve (3:12-13), Promise of Messiah through Eve's seed (3:15), Judgement of God (curse on Serpent, Eve, Adam, ground etc) (3:14-19), Picture of Atonement in the skins for food (3:21), Expulsion from the Garden (3:22-24)

The Biblical Theology of death, or what death is, does not present an event that can be used for the analogy to mean "inability to respond." At death the body does not respond but the person is still intact as the human soul and functional. Eph. 2:1 indicates we are spiritually dead in our trespasses and sins prior to salvation. If you wish to use physical death as the analogy, the analogy would be separation. Exegetically we are dead, or separated in the sphere of trespasses and sins. Inability to respond is a false analogy. Those who acknowledge this like to use the Rom. 1 and Rom. 3:10-18 as indicating the nature of man's depravity is such that they cannot respond to the Gospel. However, while this indicates man's journey away from God, and his desire to have nothing to do with God, it no where states that man has been disabled to the place of spiritual inability. It seems to indicate man has exercised his will not to respond. Thus he is held accountable for not responding (Matt. 23:37-39). The "will not" must be overcome by the wooing of the Spirit of God. However, if man does not respond to God seeking him, he may become like the Pharisees who committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and were beyond response by their own doing.

[ March 08, 2006, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Timtoolman ]

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by bjonson:
Helen,

It is truly remarkable that you have been corrected on what "foreknowledge" means over and over and over and yet still try to maintain the nonsense that says "God saw what WE would choose and therefore ELECTED us BASED ON our choice, not His."

That is illogical in almost every way.

God chose before we did anything.

"So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." (Romans 9:16, ESV)

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13, ESV)

"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call—" (Romans 9:11, ESV)

In all honesty bjohnson I have not seen it. And the simple fact that most people believe, and biblical so, that God HAS foreknowledge then that makes your above statement rather prideful more then anything else.

 

[Rippon]

A Call To Prayer And Testimony by C.H.S.

... Christ's determination to perform a work , his decree that so it shall be , is no argument for our idleness , but is the best plea and encouragement for our endeavours . " If it is to be , " cries one , " I need not do anything. " Nay , friend , thou arguest slothfully . On the contrary , the earnest heart will reason itself into immediate and confident action ... Pre-destination , when rightly understood , never leads to sloth : it has frequently , in human history , been of tremendous force for the production of the most daring and determined action ... God wills it , therefore it shall be . Like thunderbolts flung from an almighty hand , believers crash through every difficulty under the irrepressible impulse of fulfilling a divine purpose . Oh , that our meditations at this time may bring us all to this resolve , that we will not rest , and we will give God no rest , till his decree is fulfilled , and till he has established and made Jerusalem a praise in the earth !