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God's fault?

S

seekingthetruth

New Member
If God created man knowing that the heart of man is evil, and, if man does not have a choice to repent.....then every time a lost person dies and goes to hell, is it God's fault?

Think about this before you answer.

If God creates an evil man, and denies him even the oppurtunity to repent, is it the man's fault he goes to Hell, or is it God's?

John
 
S

seekingthetruth

New Member
seekingthetruth said:
If God created man knowing that the heart of man is evil, and, if man does not have a choice to repent.....then every time a lost person dies and goes to hell, is it God's fault?

Think about this before you answer.

If God creates an evil man, and denies him even the oppurtunity to repent, is it the man's fault he goes to Hell, or is it God's?

John
Click to expand...

It's funny that the members of BB will respond to a goofy question, but ignore a serious one.....HHHmmmmmm

Like this one....."Did Jesus Troll?"

John
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
seekingthetruth said:
If God created man knowing that the heart of man is evil, and, if man does not have a choice to repent.....then every time a lost person dies and goes to hell, is it God's fault?

Think about this before you answer.

If God creates an evil man, and denies him even the oppurtunity to repent, is it the man's fault he goes to Hell, or is it God's?

John
Click to expand...

John, why wouldn't man have a choice to repent? That scenario would make God evil & I think we both agree that He is not.
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
seekingthetruth said:
If God created man knowing that the heart of man is evil, and, if man does not have a choice to repent.....then every time a lost person dies and goes to hell, is it God's fault?

Think about this before you answer.

If God creates an evil man, and denies him even the oppurtunity to repent, is it the man's fault he goes to Hell, or is it God's?

John
Click to expand...

John,
My question would be, where do you get the idea that God created an evil man? Adam and Eve were created as innocent without a sin nature but capable of choice.

I don't think that every new human is created by God in the Genesis 1-2 sense of the term. But they are conceived and have a sin nature. God is never "at fault" when a person goes to hell. All are sinners deserving of hell.
 
S

seekingthetruth

New Member
Tom Bryant said:
John,
My question would be, where do you get the idea that God created an evil man? Adam and Eve were created as innocent without a sin nature but capable of choice.

I don't think that every new human is created by God in the Genesis 1-2 sense of the term. But they are conceived and have a sin nature. God is never "at fault" when a person goes to hell. All are sinners deserving of hell.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

We all deserve Hell.

Why do some of us deserve heaven?

John
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
Tom Bryant said:
John,
My question would be, where do you get the idea that God created an evil man? Adam and Eve were created as innocent without a sin nature but capable of choice.

I don't think that every new human is created by God in the Genesis 1-2 sense of the term. But they are conceived and have a sin nature. God is never "at fault" when a person goes to hell. All are sinners deserving of hell.
Click to expand...
God created Adam and we were in Adam when God created Adam. So how is it we are not created by God?
MB
 
S

seekingthetruth

New Member
plain_n_simple said:
Yes to what Tom said. God did not create an evil heart, we inherited it.
Click to expand...

I agree. So why would God give salvation to certain evil men, but deny it to others?

Arent we all equally evil? Some would say that they are not as evil as Charles Manson, but I would disagree. We are all evil.

So why do some get undeserved merit, and some dont?

John
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
seekingthetruth said:
Oh no!!!!

I agree that we have a choice. But what about the Dogs? If God doesnt give them a choice, then what?

John
Click to expand...

Aquinas does teach on animals not havin souls so I really cant speak to my 3 Bulldogs LOL however as for folks that support Doctrines of Grace Salvation theology.....of which I am one, we believe that Christs death on the cross is sufficient to wash away the sins of anyone, all they have to do is believe in Christ as Lord & Savior. Now I cant tell you why God elects some to salvation, that is a mystery quite frankly....I can venture a guess but that would be an opinion on my part. However I am grateful that I am one of his selected ones because I couldn't have gotten there all by myself. So rather than criticizing election, I sing it's praises which John Newton describes better than I ever could in Amazing Grace...

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
 
S

seekingthetruth

New Member
Earth said:
Aquinas does teach on animals not havin souls so I really cant speak to my 3 Bulldogs LOL however as for folks that support Doctrines of Grace Salvation theology.....of which I am one, we believe that Christs death on the cross is sufficient to wash away the sins of anyone, all they have to do is believe in Christ as Lord & Savior. Now I cant tell you why God elects some to salvation, that is a mystery quite frankly....I can venture a guess but that would be an opinion on my part. However I am grateful that I am one of his selected ones because I couldn't have gotten there all by myself. So rather than criticizing election, I sing it's praises which John Newton describes better than I ever could in Amazing Grace...

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
Click to expand...

Well, we can agree on that at least.

I love that song too:thumbs::thumbs:

John
 
J

jbh28

Active Member
seekingthetruth said:
If God created man knowing that the heart of man is evil, and, if man does not have a choice to repent.....then every time a lost person dies and goes to hell, is it God's fault?
Click to expand...
Hey John,

God does create man knowing...I'm assuming you would agree with that.
Man does have a choice to repent.
If God creates an evil man, and denies him even the oppurtunity to repent, is it the man's fault he goes to Hell, or is it God's?
Click to expand...
God doesn't deny the opportunity to repent.

seekingthetruth said:
We all deserve Hell.

Why do some of us deserve heaven?

John
Click to expand...
If we "all deserve Hell" then there none of course deserve heaven. I'm assuming that some are shown mercy. Be given mercy doesn't make anyone deserve heaven.

seekingthetruth said:
I agree. So why would God give salvation to certain evil men, but deny it to others?
Click to expand...
He doesn't "deny" it to anyone. All that come to Jesus will be raised up in the last day. (John 6:37)
Arent we all equally evil?
Click to expand...
Yes and no. We are not as evil as we can be. We though are all equal even in regards to deserving hell. (James 2:10)
Some would say that they are not as evil as Charles Manson, but I would disagree. We are all evil.
Click to expand...
Depends on what you are meaning as I said above. You are not as evil as Charles Manson. But as far as deserving hell, we are all equally deserving.
So why do some get undeserved merit, and some dont?

John
Click to expand...
Glad you said "undeserved"
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
MB said:
God created Adam and we were in Adam when God created Adam. So how is it we are not created by God?
MB
Click to expand...

This is way off the OP, but we were in Adam as, in a sense, our representative in terms of inheriting the sin nature. It's never used in terms of us being created.
 
S

seekingthetruth

New Member
I have to admit something here.

I still dont agree with Calvinisim, but the Cal discussions have made me study and consider things i never thought of beforehand.

yes, I believe we have a choice. If we didnt then ?God wasted alot of preaching in the NT.

But yes, I do believe that God is everywhere, past present, and future, and he knows my heart. (Gosh, that is really scary!!!)

John
 
J

jbh28

Active Member
seekingthetruth said:
I have to admit something here.

I still dont agree with Calvinisim, but the Cal discussions have made me study and consider things i never thought of beforehand.

yes, I believe we have a choice. If we didnt then ?God wasted alot of preaching in the NT.

But yes, I do believe that God is everywhere, past present, and future, and he knows my heart. (Gosh, that is really scary!!!)

John
Click to expand...

Good John. It's always good when discussions lead to further study of the Bible!
 
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