A Bible not based on William Tyndales translations? Our translations would have been of a vastly lesser quality I would fear.
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God's Providence and Bible Translation
- Thread starter John of Japan
- Start date
A Bible not based on William Tyndales translations? Our translations would have been of a vastly lesser quality I would fear.
Like the English my Grandpa and Grandma Rice spoke--not far off from the old ASV, which he liked.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
Which they liked.
Here is a photo of Uncle Miya and me. I miss the guy! I would work at the church on the translation all Friday morning, then pick him up after lunch and head to the church. On the way to the church we would exchange English idioms--a practice he loved!
I always had two things prepared for our sessions: coffee, and the best dark chocolate in the world, a Brazilian flavor made by a Japanese company.
As we began to spar over the rendering we were working on, he would say, "Saa, tachiai!" (さあ、立ち合い！) The first time he said that it got me worried. Tachiai is the term for when two giant sumo wrestlers begin their match, crashing into each other with full power! I needn't have worried, though. We got along great!
I always had two things prepared for our sessions: coffee, and the best dark chocolate in the world, a Brazilian flavor made by a Japanese company.
As we began to spar over the rendering we were working on, he would say, "Saa, tachiai!" (さあ、立ち合い！) The first time he said that it got me worried. Tachiai is the term for when two giant sumo wrestlers begin their match, crashing into each other with full power! I needn't have worried, though. We got along great!
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Forgot to add the photo:
I don't recall her ever using it, but she may have.
Which is based through intermediaries on Tyndale. If there was no Tyndale for an ASV through intermediaries to be based on, it would have been very different. Unless God raised up someone like Tyndale in1911.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
You referenced both of your grandparents --hence the 'they' by way of my correction. You had said that they spoke in a manner like the ASV.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
God raised up The Twentieth Century New Testament in 1904. A lot of lay people contributed to the project and Bible scholars --Weymouth and Harris added to the worthiness of the enterprise. Weymouth did his own translation which was published a year after his death in 1903.
Then there was the version by Edgar J. Goodspeed. It was called The New Testament : An American Translation. It came out in 1923.
So those three came out in the first quarter of the 20th century. Only the last two were one-man projects.
Did they sound like the ASV? Or were they totally independant based? Thank you.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
They were totally independent productions.
37818
Well-Known Member
What does 2 Peter 1:20, ". . . Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. . ." supposed to mean?
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
If that verse isn't clear enough for you, the following is ultra plain :
"for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." (NET)
37818
Well-Known Member
2 Peter 1:20 is not at issue.
But your comment:
The meaning in light of 2 Peter 1:20.
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
I don't see any problem. The three translations I mentioned were independent productions as I said. Conan was asking if they sounded like the ASV. In other words, are they similar. They were as similar and as dissimilar as Bible versions are. The ESV sounds like the NKJV. The NET and CSB sound like the NIV.
37818
Well-Known Member
In the New Testament there are textual issues. It is the error versus the word of God. Both or the multiple readings for a singular text in the Greek cannot all be the word of God. Known locations, Luke 4:4 and John 13:2 to refer to two. KJ-Onlyism mess came out of that mess.
We've wandered into the area of speculation, but thank you for bringing up Tyndale. God's providence, I believe, ensured that the Gospel went into Europe, that Great Britain received the Gospel early through such great missionaries as Boniface. The England that produced Tyndale and his abilities and courage was due to the wonderful providence of God, and we can thank God for him, one of the greatest translators ever to walk the face of the earth.
Here are the notes for a lecture I give on the qualifications of a translator (footnotes at the bottom of part 2). When God wants a believer to translate the Bible, God equips and qualifies him or her providentially. However, there are plenty of "wannabes" out there who try to translate but aren't equipped to. Notice the great little story in my introduction. 
Qualifications for a Bible Translator
Neh. 8:8, Acts 6:3
INTRODUCTION: A “wannabe” is someone who wants to be important but does not have the right skills, training or talent. For Bible translators we do not need “wannabes,” but people who are gifted by God and totally committed to the task. One such “wannabe” wrote the United Bible Societies: “I would be so glad to help in the translating of the Bible, and so if you would send me a dictionary and grammar of some of these primitive languages, I would be happy to dedicate my spare time to the translation of the New Testament.”[1]
So, there are certain qualifications which a translator should have. Not every translator may have all of these qualifications. Some are more important than others. But we should think carefully about who should be a translator of the precious Word of God.
I. Spiritual Qualifications (Acts 6:1-3)
A. The translator is a helper to the church, and so is similar to the deacon. Therefore, these qualifications should apply.
B. Every member of a translation team should be a saved person, or the Holy Spirit will not guide him or her. That said, it is not unusual to use secular sources or unsaved people for guidance on particular semantic or syntactical difficulties.
C. The translator should be a spiritual person who deeply loves the Word of God and has daily devotions in it, and takes time to study it deeply, knowing that God gave the Bible by inspiration (2 Tim. 3:16-17). It is not a normal book.
D. The translator should know how to be led by the Holy Spirit, Who will be helping the translator (John 16:13).
E. The translator should be called by God to the work.
F. There are no Scriptural prohibitions for a woman being a translator. The obvious caveat here is that if a translation team is also planting a church, the woman should not lead in that effort. A woman missionary translator has written:
Then one day I was checking 1 Timothy with Ama [her male translation partner]. We came to 1 Timothy 2:12 where Paul says to Timothy, “I do not permit a woman to teach…a man.” Ama never said a word; we just went on checking. But late that afternoon, when we were finished for the day, he asked me what we were going to study on Sunday. Assuming he was just curious, I was delighted to tell him. Then on Sunday morning, after the singing finished and before I could stand up, Ama rose and, nodding toward me, said, “My daughter here knows more about this than I do, but we found in the Bible where it says that women aren’t supposed to teach men, so I guess I have to be the one.”
My Balangao teaching career was over. Ama led the Balangao’s (sic) into church leadership.[2]
G. The translator must be a prayer warrior.
H. The translator must have a godly humility and willingness to listen to others.
II. Character Qualifications
A. A translator without good character will soon bog down and not be able to finish the task. Translating the Bible is hard work, and requires a deep level of commitment (Prov. 12:27).
B. Thus, perhaps the most important character qualification is a good work ethic. By the time the translator is finished with the New Testament, not to mention the Old Testament, he will have spent literally thousands of hours doing the work. A lazy person cannot accomplish this.
C. The translator should also be scrupulously honest. An honest translator refrains from interpreting the text if at all possible, but simply translates. However, there are times when interpretation is unavoidable.
1. The translator must never substitute his own ideas for what God has said. Therefore, paraphrasing a translation of God’s Word is wrong.
2. For example, the translator should seek to retain the ambiguity of the original language.
3. If the writer of Scripture was ambiguous in a passage, it was for an important purpose. God’s Word often makes us think hard.
D. Again, the translator must be honest in his approach to other translations, if there are already Bible translations in the target language. Plagiarism is the sin of stealing, so the translator must be sure his work is his own, and not copy verbatim other translations.
E. The Bible translator must never be a quitter. He must be totally committed to carrying the work through to the end. If God has called him to the task, he must finish the task with God’s help (Prov. 22:29, 1 Thess. 5:24).
III. Linguistic Qualifications
A. A gift for languages, if not formal training, is necessary (1 Cor. 12:28).
B. Sometimes a very hard worker with meager talents can become quite fluent in a foreign language. However, usually the best linguists are those with God-given talents in language.
C. Beyond normal language study, the Bible translator should do his or her own study of linguistics and translation theory.
IV. Scholarly Qualifications
A. A trained translator is the best translator. At a minimum, the translator should be highly trained in the target language if he is not a native speaker. A native speaker is definitely the best translator.
B. For one example, it is virtually impossible for someone untrained in an Asian language to translate into an Asian language, even with a helper. At best, a linguist without training in the target language can only give advice concerning the original language, making him a translation consultant and not one of the translators.
C. Furthermore, the translator ought to be well-trained in the original language, koine Greek for the New Testament and Hebrew for the Old Testament. Even if the translator is translating from the English Bible, as is sometimes necessary, they should be well-trained in the English language. Remember the famous book by Portuguese Pedro Carolino, English As She Is Spoke.
D. The translator ought to get some training in how to translate. There are now more opportunities than ever in this area for fundamentalists:
1. Baptist Bible Translator’s Institute (BBTI)
2. WorldView Team Meetings
3. BJU Missionary Linguistic courses in May and June
4. Bearing Precious Seed (Milford, OH) Bible Publishing Summit
5. Baptist Theological Seminary’s MA in Bible Translation
Qualifications for a Bible Translator
Neh. 8:8, Acts 6:3
INTRODUCTION: A “wannabe” is someone who wants to be important but does not have the right skills, training or talent. For Bible translators we do not need “wannabes,” but people who are gifted by God and totally committed to the task. One such “wannabe” wrote the United Bible Societies: “I would be so glad to help in the translating of the Bible, and so if you would send me a dictionary and grammar of some of these primitive languages, I would be happy to dedicate my spare time to the translation of the New Testament.”[1]
So, there are certain qualifications which a translator should have. Not every translator may have all of these qualifications. Some are more important than others. But we should think carefully about who should be a translator of the precious Word of God.
I. Spiritual Qualifications (Acts 6:1-3)
A. The translator is a helper to the church, and so is similar to the deacon. Therefore, these qualifications should apply.
B. Every member of a translation team should be a saved person, or the Holy Spirit will not guide him or her. That said, it is not unusual to use secular sources or unsaved people for guidance on particular semantic or syntactical difficulties.
C. The translator should be a spiritual person who deeply loves the Word of God and has daily devotions in it, and takes time to study it deeply, knowing that God gave the Bible by inspiration (2 Tim. 3:16-17). It is not a normal book.
D. The translator should know how to be led by the Holy Spirit, Who will be helping the translator (John 16:13).
E. The translator should be called by God to the work.
F. There are no Scriptural prohibitions for a woman being a translator. The obvious caveat here is that if a translation team is also planting a church, the woman should not lead in that effort. A woman missionary translator has written:
Then one day I was checking 1 Timothy with Ama [her male translation partner]. We came to 1 Timothy 2:12 where Paul says to Timothy, “I do not permit a woman to teach…a man.” Ama never said a word; we just went on checking. But late that afternoon, when we were finished for the day, he asked me what we were going to study on Sunday. Assuming he was just curious, I was delighted to tell him. Then on Sunday morning, after the singing finished and before I could stand up, Ama rose and, nodding toward me, said, “My daughter here knows more about this than I do, but we found in the Bible where it says that women aren’t supposed to teach men, so I guess I have to be the one.”
My Balangao teaching career was over. Ama led the Balangao’s (sic) into church leadership.[2]
G. The translator must be a prayer warrior.
H. The translator must have a godly humility and willingness to listen to others.
II. Character Qualifications
A. A translator without good character will soon bog down and not be able to finish the task. Translating the Bible is hard work, and requires a deep level of commitment (Prov. 12:27).
B. Thus, perhaps the most important character qualification is a good work ethic. By the time the translator is finished with the New Testament, not to mention the Old Testament, he will have spent literally thousands of hours doing the work. A lazy person cannot accomplish this.
C. The translator should also be scrupulously honest. An honest translator refrains from interpreting the text if at all possible, but simply translates. However, there are times when interpretation is unavoidable.
1. The translator must never substitute his own ideas for what God has said. Therefore, paraphrasing a translation of God’s Word is wrong.
2. For example, the translator should seek to retain the ambiguity of the original language.
3. If the writer of Scripture was ambiguous in a passage, it was for an important purpose. God’s Word often makes us think hard.
D. Again, the translator must be honest in his approach to other translations, if there are already Bible translations in the target language. Plagiarism is the sin of stealing, so the translator must be sure his work is his own, and not copy verbatim other translations.
E. The Bible translator must never be a quitter. He must be totally committed to carrying the work through to the end. If God has called him to the task, he must finish the task with God’s help (Prov. 22:29, 1 Thess. 5:24).
III. Linguistic Qualifications
A. A gift for languages, if not formal training, is necessary (1 Cor. 12:28).
B. Sometimes a very hard worker with meager talents can become quite fluent in a foreign language. However, usually the best linguists are those with God-given talents in language.
C. Beyond normal language study, the Bible translator should do his or her own study of linguistics and translation theory.
IV. Scholarly Qualifications
A. A trained translator is the best translator. At a minimum, the translator should be highly trained in the target language if he is not a native speaker. A native speaker is definitely the best translator.
B. For one example, it is virtually impossible for someone untrained in an Asian language to translate into an Asian language, even with a helper. At best, a linguist without training in the target language can only give advice concerning the original language, making him a translation consultant and not one of the translators.
C. Furthermore, the translator ought to be well-trained in the original language, koine Greek for the New Testament and Hebrew for the Old Testament. Even if the translator is translating from the English Bible, as is sometimes necessary, they should be well-trained in the English language. Remember the famous book by Portuguese Pedro Carolino, English As She Is Spoke.
D. The translator ought to get some training in how to translate. There are now more opportunities than ever in this area for fundamentalists:
1. Baptist Bible Translator’s Institute (BBTI)
2. WorldView Team Meetings
3. BJU Missionary Linguistic courses in May and June
4. Bearing Precious Seed (Milford, OH) Bible Publishing Summit
5. Baptist Theological Seminary’s MA in Bible Translation
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Part 2
V. Cultural and Sociological Qualifications
A. The cultural aspect is very important in translating. The translator must know intimately the culture of the target language to avoid misunderstandings, because language and culture are greatly intertwined. “One translator found that what she had thought meant ‘sinners’ actually meant ‘fat people,’ for the tones of the language were almost the exact opposite of the tune [she was translating].”[3]
B. The translator should be well acquainted with the culture of the target language in order to understand the differences: the language, the customs, the social structure, the religions. Therefore, the best translator is the native speaker. “A missionary among the Tarahumaras was trying to obtain the word ‘jump.’ He acted it out by jumping around the room. The people responded with an expression; so he quickly wrote it down, only to find out later that it meant, ‘What is wrong with you?’”[4]
C. One trap is what is called “taboo words.” A taboo word is “a word known to speakers but avoided in some, most, or all forms or contexts of speech, for reasons of religion, decorum, politeness, etc. Thus in some societies the word for ‘death’ is taboo, and is accordingly replaced in most forms of speech by a metaphor, euphemism, or some other figurative or roundabout expression.”[5]
VI. The Authority of the Translator
A. The authority for translating the Bible comes from the fact that the translator is a priest.
B. Since in the church age we believers are priests (1 Peter 2:5, 9, Rev. 1:6, 5:10, 20:6), we have a responsibility from God to preserve His Word by: having our own copy (like the kings of Israel were supposed to in Deut. 17:18), hiding it in our hearts (Ps. 119:11), sharing it with others and translating it.
C. In the Old Testament it was the job of the priests to preserve the Word of God in the form of a special copy (Deut. 17:18; see also Ezek. 44:8, Mal. 2:7) in the Temple (2 Kings 22:9-10), and in the ark of God (Deut 31:26).
CONCLUSION: Not all Christians—in fact, very few—can be Bible translators. Only those who have the right qualifications can do so, and only those who have been called of God to this precious task should do so. Those who accept the challenge will be given divine help, and will rejoice in how God has blessed their efforts.
[1] Eugene Nida, God’s Word in Man’s Language (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1952), 56.
[2] Joanne Shetler with Patricia Purvis, And the Word Came with Power (Portland: Multnomah, 1992), 87.
[3] Eugene Nida, Bible Translating, rev. (London: United Bible Societies, 1961), 17.
[4] Ibid., 4.
[5] P. H. Matthews, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Linguistics (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1997, 2007), 400.
V. Cultural and Sociological Qualifications
A. The cultural aspect is very important in translating. The translator must know intimately the culture of the target language to avoid misunderstandings, because language and culture are greatly intertwined. “One translator found that what she had thought meant ‘sinners’ actually meant ‘fat people,’ for the tones of the language were almost the exact opposite of the tune [she was translating].”[3]
B. The translator should be well acquainted with the culture of the target language in order to understand the differences: the language, the customs, the social structure, the religions. Therefore, the best translator is the native speaker. “A missionary among the Tarahumaras was trying to obtain the word ‘jump.’ He acted it out by jumping around the room. The people responded with an expression; so he quickly wrote it down, only to find out later that it meant, ‘What is wrong with you?’”[4]
C. One trap is what is called “taboo words.” A taboo word is “a word known to speakers but avoided in some, most, or all forms or contexts of speech, for reasons of religion, decorum, politeness, etc. Thus in some societies the word for ‘death’ is taboo, and is accordingly replaced in most forms of speech by a metaphor, euphemism, or some other figurative or roundabout expression.”[5]
VI. The Authority of the Translator
A. The authority for translating the Bible comes from the fact that the translator is a priest.
B. Since in the church age we believers are priests (1 Peter 2:5, 9, Rev. 1:6, 5:10, 20:6), we have a responsibility from God to preserve His Word by: having our own copy (like the kings of Israel were supposed to in Deut. 17:18), hiding it in our hearts (Ps. 119:11), sharing it with others and translating it.
C. In the Old Testament it was the job of the priests to preserve the Word of God in the form of a special copy (Deut. 17:18; see also Ezek. 44:8, Mal. 2:7) in the Temple (2 Kings 22:9-10), and in the ark of God (Deut 31:26).
CONCLUSION: Not all Christians—in fact, very few—can be Bible translators. Only those who have the right qualifications can do so, and only those who have been called of God to this precious task should do so. Those who accept the challenge will be given divine help, and will rejoice in how God has blessed their efforts.
[1] Eugene Nida, God’s Word in Man’s Language (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1952), 56.
[2] Joanne Shetler with Patricia Purvis, And the Word Came with Power (Portland: Multnomah, 1992), 87.
[3] Eugene Nida, Bible Translating, rev. (London: United Bible Societies, 1961), 17.
[4] Ibid., 4.
[5] P. H. Matthews, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Linguistics (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1997, 2007), 400.
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I remember one wannabe, an American businessman who lived down in Yokosuka near Tokyo. He wasn't military, but had something to do with the big US naval base down there. He really wanted to help in our project. We talked on the phone.
Me--"Do you know Greek?"
Him--"No."
Me--"Do you know Japanese?"
Him--"No."
Me--"Well, you can contribute with offerings through our mission board, if you wish."
Him--"I don't believe in mission boards."
So he roped a Japanese guy into supposedly doing a couple of chapters of John. He said he would send them to me. Never came.
End of story.
Me--"Do you know Greek?"
Him--"No."
Me--"Do you know Japanese?"
Him--"No."
Me--"Well, you can contribute with offerings through our mission board, if you wish."
Him--"I don't believe in mission boards."
So he roped a Japanese guy into supposedly doing a couple of chapters of John. He said he would send them to me. Never came.
End of story.