Gods Sabbath Day

[Brother Bob]

Why would God do away with the "old" that He might establish the "New" if we were going back to animal sacrifices. That was what the Bible was talking about when it said "the law is a shadow of things to come" and talking about fulfilling a law that is what Jesus really fulfilled and that was to make a "perfect sacrifice" so no more would be needed. If we are saved by Jesus's blood why in the world would we start over again with animal's blood?

Blessings,

BBob

 

[Ben W]

Good point Brother Bob!

I have asked many feast keeping Christians to show me in the Bible where you can make a seperation of the Animal Sacrifice and the Feast. There is no such dispensation in Scripture, you either keep all of the feast or none of it.

Mosaic Judaism if fufilled in Messianic Judaism. Messianic Jews are the real Jews. The various Jewish groups in the world do not have a Temple and Levites to valdiate their mosaic feasts, yet for the Messianic Believer, Christ is the Temple.

 

[Mary Diana Lynn Harper]

you keep it on a Saturday and the catholics keep it on a sunday. Who is right? only God knows because with all the changes and being the ages expand over long periods of time and no one was there except Christ and God. You, I or anyone today was not there. I just know that for 6 days I work and on the 7th day I rest as God says. You can argue all you want on days and what is written in all the books all over, but God specifically says work 6 days and give me your 7th day. No day of the week mentioned except that the 7th day is a Sabbath day to God.

 

[Ben W]

The Catholics in their own documentation record the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday by a decree of one of the Popes. As the Pope of the church he had the authority to do that as he is the vicar of Christ to Catholics. I am not trying to be rude to Catholics, that is the way the system works, and often, the changing of the Sabbath is quoted as evidence of that very thing to Catholic students.

Yet it remains that scince the ressurection of Christ, the Jews have faithfully kept the Sabbath each Saturday!

I would also point out that most scholars see the Saturday as the Jewish Sabbath, yet call Sunday "The Lords Day" acknowledging that although it is the day that most churches worship on, it is not a Sabbath day.

 

[Eric B]

My experience though Bob is that prior to being involved with the Seventh Day Baptist Church was that I went to the Church of God Seventh Day, which was the group that Herbert Armstrong was thrown out of and went on to form the Worldwide Church of God from. Anyway what I noticed there, and I have seen this happen in the SDB as well, is that people come into it and get very heavilly into the Sabbath idea and then begin judging others on how they keep the Sabbath. One Chap at COG7 used to constantly argue over things like that with the Pastor during Bible Studies.

That must have been the Salem group. The original Stanberry (Denver) goups seemed to be a lot more gracvious that that. Salem broke off from Stanberry, and then yes, Armstrong came out of Salem (he was originally one of the "70 elders", a concept he would later mock in Mystery of the Ages as copied from the sanhedrin, and they never had more than half of the 70).

Both groups in addition to the Sabbath kept the Nisan 14th Passover communion, but not the rest of the annual feasts. It is a progression from one "forgotten commandment" to another, and another, and another as each new group one-ups the last group. The CG7's were also binitarian.

have asked many feast keeping Christians to show me in the Bible where you can make a seperation of the Animal Sacrifice and the Feast. There is no such dispensation in Scripture, you either keep all of the feast or none of it.

In fact, the statute commanded "forever" in Lev.23:14 frequently quoted by these groups was not the feast day, but the OFFERING! keeping offerings.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Mary Diana Lynn Harper:
in Deuteronomy 5:12-15 tells you of the sabbath if anyone is interested. Gods Sabbath, it does not give a particular day on man shall work 6 days and on the 7th day rest from any labor or work

#1. So then do you choose to honor Christ the Creator's Holy day - HIS memorial of his creative act in making mankind? "MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 - but in harmony with what you say from Deut 5 -- you do this on a day of "your" choosing?

#2. Are you saying that as God Himself thundered this command with His own voice in Exodus 20:8-11 that He was not specific about a day and the congregation was free to select individually any day they wish - as long as it was one out of seven?

#3. Is it your claim that Exodus 16 (which serves as context leading up to Exodus 20) is "not specific?

Ex 16
23 then he said to them, ""This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is the Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.''
24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it.
25 Moses said, ""Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field.
26 "" Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.''
27 It came about on the seventh day that some of the people went out to gather, but they found none.

28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "" How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions?
29 ""See, the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.''
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

I am just trying to fully understand your position.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Ben said -
My experience though Bob is that prior to being involved with the Seventh Day Baptist Church was that I went to the Church of God Seventh Day, which was the group that Herbert Armstrong was thrown out of and went on to form the Worldwide Church of God from. Anyway what I noticed there, and I have seen this happen in the SDB as well, is that people come into it and get very heavilly into the Sabbath idea and then begin judging others on how they keep the Sabbath. One Chap at COG7 used to constantly argue over things like that with the Pastor during Bible Studies. In all cases, what has happened is that the people leave and join one of the Armstrong splinter groups like the Living Church of God, United Church of God, Church of the Great God etc etc, all of whom teach mandatory feast keeping and deny the Trinity.

I agree with you Ben - that does sound like legalism and I did not mean to imply in my post that I thought you were saying anything negative about SDAs.

My point is that the line used to "define legalism" has to be carefully drawn. You have shown a pretty good case for it "by examples" given in your post so no argument there. I am just saying that when you distill that down to "a rule" that can be used in the future it has to be something that does not condemn the group of annual feast-day keepers being identified (and even defended by Paul) in Romans 14.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Mary Diana Lynn Harper:
you keep it on a Saturday and the catholics keep it on a sunday. Who is right? only God knows...

The case is not as confused as you may suppose. Catholic authors themselves claim that in fact the "7th day IS Saturday and not Sunday".

Let's read them as "they" show that they "get this point" as well as all the Seventh-day observant Christians.

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post
Vatican ii explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'"
((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

The Faith Explained (a commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican ii) states on

Page 242 that changing the Lord's day to Sunday was in the power of the church since "in the gospels ..Jesus confers upon his church the power to make laws in his name".

page 243

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))

"we know that in the o.t it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

 

[BobRyan]

Many "if not all" on this board will readily admit that the "Sabbath" is in fact Saturday - the Seventh-day and that the first day of the week - the day of Christ's resurrection is "Sunday".

In so doing - we have agreement on that one point by ALL sides (or almost all - I think there may be still 1 or 2 still pondering that point).