God's Sovereignty

[mandym]

God is sovereign when He opens the heart of man (His Sovereign choice) and gives him a choice to respond to him because that is the way God wants it done in His sovereignty. That is God's will and plan therefore this is not a Sovereignty issue.

You may disagree that this is the will of God but such a debate does not involve the sovereignty of God. We both see It seems to suggest that is only a pejorative and a way to beat others down. To engage this difference in this way is sophomoric, irresponsible, and dishonest.

 

[webdog]

Agreed. Who put the law in the hearts of all men? Who made all that is created? Who set the desire to live forever in the hearts of all men? Who placed each and every human being in the perfect location and place geographically to seek Him "and perhaps find Him although He is not far from any of us". Who purchased us? Who gave The Gift?

The accusation any true believer does not hold to God being sovereign is "clueless"

 

[mandym]

Agreed. Who put the law in the hearts of all men? Who made all that is created? Who set the desire to live forever in the hearts of all men? Who placed each and every human being in the perfect location and place geographically to seek Him "and perhaps find Him although He is not far from any of us". Who purchased us? Who gave The Gift?

The accusation any true believer does not hold to God being sovereign is "clueless"

Suggesting that they are clueless is giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are not really understanding the issue rather than just being dishonest. I do hope that is what is going on.

 

[Iconoclast]

God is sovereign when He opens the heart of man (His Sovereign choice) and gives him a choice to respond to him because that is the way God wants it done in His sovereignty. That is God's will and plan therefore this is not a Sovereignty issue.

You may disagree that this is the will of God but such a debate does not involve the sovereignty of God. We both see It seems to suggest that is only a pejorative and a way to beat others down. To engage this difference in this way is sophomoric, irresponsible, and dishonest.

it would have been correct if you left it right here;

God is sovereign when He opens the heart of man

but when you went on with this invention you have departed from biblical truth;

and gives him a choice to respond to him because that is the way God wants it done in His sovereignty

This goes against the biblical teaching.


webdog...

The accusation any true believer does not hold to God being sovereign is "clueless"

many give lip service to it...saying God is sovereign...but then they limit His sovereignty....in that they do not believe in His absolute sovereignty. That is they then name areas that they the creature will allow God to be sovereign.

 

[mandym]

many give lip service to it...saying God is sovereign...but then they limit His sovereignty....in that they do not believe in His absolute sovereignty. That is they then name areas that they the creature will allow God to be sovereign.

And this is the strawman made on this board all the time. It seems it is done as a result of tunnel vision that creates ignorance. When God opens up the heart of man and gives man the opportunity to accept or reject Him that is His sovereign will and activity.

 

[Iconoclast]

And this is the strawman made on this board all the time. It seems it is done as a result of tunnel vision that creates ignorance. When God opens up the heart of man and gives man the opportunity to accept or reject Him that is His sovereign will and activity.

no....you are adding to God's word.....it does not say Lydia...whose heart the Lord opened....and then gave her a choice to accept or reject
That is your addition, and contradicts several other passages.....no where does it say this!

Gods sovereign will is to give a new heart...

 

[mandym]

no....you are adding to God's word.....it does not say Lydia...whose heart the Lord opened....and then gave her a choice to accept or reject
That is your addition, and contradicts several other passages.....no where does it say this!

Gods sovereign will is to give a new heart...

You need to go back and read the op again.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

yea well......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqj61J-J8s&feature=related :thumbsup: :jesus:

 

[Aaron]

God is sovereign when He opens the heart of man (His Sovereign choice) and gives him a choice to respond to him because that is the way God wants it done in His sovereignty. That is God's will and plan therefore this is not a Sovereignty issue.

You may disagree that this is the will of God but such a debate does not involve the sovereignty of God. We both see It seems to suggest that is only a pejorative and a way to beat others down. To engage this difference in this way is sophomoric, irresponsible, and dishonest.

It is a sovereignty issue.

You're simply saying that God has willingly yielded His sovereignty over the heart of a man in salvation. That the man is his own king for that choice. That it is the man's own will at work in this choice.

 

[Aaron]

God is sovereign when He opens the heart of man (His Sovereign choice) and gives him a choice to respond to him because that is the way God wants it done in His sovereignty.

This opening of which you speak. Is it truly God's work, and is it performed whether or not the man wanted his heart opened?

 

[jonathan.borland]

God works his plan based on the actions of men. Look at Nineveh for example. Had they not repented, he most certainly would have destroyed them. Same with Israel/Judah in so many cases. No need to argue a settled fact guys. That God does so doesn't make him less sovereign. Not doing so would negate other attributes.

 

[SolaSaint]

This conflict in soteriology is probably about the longest running argument in Christianity and it never has been solved by man. There have been many theories proposed to end or solve this debate like Molonism or Compatibilism, but the conflict carries on with no end in sight, except the return of Christ. I say we will never agree on this issue and should agree to put this aside for the sake of spending more time witnessing to our lost brothers and sisters in the world. This is one of those times to use Isaiah 55:8-9 to say let God be concerned how a person is saved and let us just tell of His excellent grace. :godisgood:

 

[mandym]

It is a sovereignty issue.

You're simply saying that God has willingly yielded His sovereignty over the heart of a man in salvation.

uh, no God is still sovereign since He decided how things will go. The reformed view is the view that limits God's sovereignty. To suggest that God stops being sovereign because He gives man a choice is not only absurd but a false definition of sovereignty.

 

[convicted1]

Oh boy!! Anutter thread about God's sovereingty!! What, the last one was what, three days ago?? :laugh: J/K....I mean nothing ill in this post....a little levity to defuse the thread.....the water is getting hot in here now....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My brothers & sisters, last night was one of the hardest for me to get through. A young man of 17 hung himself in his room.....this kid was valedictorian of his High School Class,was being offered ivy league scholarships, was known in the community, a hard worker with a very bright future yet that ended on Friday. The excuse was that he was bullied, but I will suggest that there was no Christ to anchor him & that without Christ, everything else didnt matter & he became overwhelmed. So please pray for Ryan & his family. And I agree with Sola that we who are fortunate enough to know God would share that fellowship with those who do not.

Blessings

 

[glfredrick]

This is the answer -- final and definitive -- and ANYONE, ANYTHING, ANY WILL that is placed above GOD is in rebellion against God.

And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:1-6 ESV)

That concept is fleshed out in the NT by John:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. He was the true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:1-13 ESV)

 

[Aaron]

uh, no God is still sovereign since He decided how things will go. The reformed view is the view that limits God's sovereignty. To suggest that God stops being sovereign because He gives man a choice is not only absurd but a false definition of sovereignty.

Who is in control over the heart of a man when he chooses whom he will serve? God or the man?

 

[glfredrick]

This conflict in soteriology is probably about the longest running argument in Christianity and it never has been solved by man. There have been many theories proposed to end or solve this debate like Molonism or Compatibilism, but the conflict carries on with no end in sight, except the return of Christ. I say we will never agree on this issue and should agree to put this aside for the sake of spending more time witnessing to our lost brothers and sisters in the world. This is one of those times to use Isaiah 55:8-9 to say let God be concerned how a person is saved and let us just tell of His excellent grace. :godisgood:

Actually, soteriology is all figured out. It is more like SOME do not like the results and are trying to make their own way. The more they try, the more muddied the waters get.

And, the more they shift the emhasis to the actions of man versus the completed work of God, the more in rebellion they are against their only hope.

 

[quantumfaith]

uh, no God is still sovereign since He decided how things will go. The reformed view is the view that limits God's sovereignty. To suggest that God stops being sovereign because He gives man a choice is not only absurd but a false definition of sovereignty.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

My brothers & sisters, last night was one of the hardest for me to get through. A young man of 17 hung himself in his room.....this kid was valedictorian of his High School Class,was being offered ivy league scholarships, was known in the community, a hard worker with a very bright future yet that ended on Friday. The excuse was that he was bullied, but I will suggest that there was no Christ to anchor him & that without Christ, everything else didnt matter & he became overwhelmed. So please pray for Ryan & his family. And I agree with Sola that we who are fortunate enough to know God would share that fellowship with those who do not.

Blessings

raying:raying:raying: