God's Ten Commandments in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and other affirmations

[BobRyan]

Which BCoF?

The London COF has 32 main points
and the NH COF has 18 main points

and I agree with the vast majority of them.

(and congratulations on your last answer -with using 50 words or less.)

Do you find D.L. Moody to be opposed to section 19 of the BCoF in his statement below? Of is the statement below perfectly compatible with it.


=========================================================

D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT] __________________
===============================================================

No one claims that D.L. Moody or C.H. Spurgeon were SDA - yet they could honestly admit to some Bible details that some here claim only SDAs could know about.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by DHK
By observation, most accept the Westminster Confession of Faith.
Icon has quoted from it many times.

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/

It is the simple doctrine of predestination that is described here. And as described here, it is not described in the Word of God. This is indeed is held by most Calvinists.

And yet the Westminster Confession of Faith reads almost identically to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" in sections 19 and 22.

I find it hard to believe that Baptists here at BB would reject the "Baptist Confession of Faith" but accept only the "Westminster Confession of Faith"

Most of them, like the Westminster, are Calvinistic. For that reason many of us disagree with them. Here is a small portion of the Westminster:

I could not agree with this. And the others are quite similar in nature.

Certainly it is understandable that Baptists that are not calvinist would not agree with everything in those documents.

But "there exists" Baptists that ARE calvinists -- some even on the BB.

I think we both agree on that point.

 

[BobRyan]

Now, if you want to debate why the position of the SDA is wrong from a Biblical viewpoint, that would be a better subject. There is no agreement from the haphazard way you have framed this.

I have good news for you -- Salty has started a thread to help your cause out in that regard -- #1

 

[DHK]

So what is your point Bob?
To show that the SDA is different than all the other religions of the world? We agree it is.
To show that it is the same or even similar that all the other religions of the world? It isn't.
Why this thread? Why the comparisons that don't make sense to me?
I don't use the Confessions of Faith, Moody's sermons, etc. They are irrelevant.
I still don't know what the debate is about. What is the purpose here?

 

[Yeshua1]

Certainly it is understandable that Baptists that are not calvinist would not agree with everything in those documents.

But "there exists" Baptists that ARE calvinists -- some even on the BB.

I think we both agree on that point.

You do not state though that Baptists, even reformed/Calvinistic ones, do NOT equate ANY Confess to be equal to the scriptures, while the SDA elevates the teachings and doctrines of the prophetess to be indeed equal to the Bible!

 

[BobRyan]

So what is your point Bob?
To show that the SDA is different than all the other religions of the world? ?

I did not start that thread -- Salty did - you appear to have asked that something like that be started in the post I quoted from you -- just letting you know your request had been addressed.

 

[BobRyan]

Why this thread? Why the comparisons that don't make sense to me?
I don't use the Confessions of Faith, Moody's sermons, etc.

Turns out... you are not the only one on this section of the board - and Salty has admitted to being in agreement with the document as posted.

Not sure that means anything to you - but not everyone here ... is you.

I think you and I would both agree on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You do not state though that Baptists, even reformed/Calvinistic ones, do NOT equate ANY Confess to be equal to the scriptures, !

That is a "rabbit trail" that goes nowhere because I did not claim that the baptists that agree with that section of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" do so because the BCoF tells them to - rather the BCoF is a statement that reflects accurately their belief on the subject it addresses in section 19 and 22.

I happen to agree with 6 of the 7 points -- not because the BCoF tells me what to think -- obviously.

Rabbit trail ended.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

I did not start that thread -- Salty did - you appear to have asked that something like that be started in the post I quoted from you -- just letting you know your request had been addressed.

I am talking about this thread which was started by you and is now three pages long. I asked the same question here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2184905&postcount=6

What is the purpose? What are you trying to prove? What is the debate?

 

[Salty]

...- and Salty has admitted to being in agreement with the document as posted. ...

and I agree with the vast majority of them.

There is a difference between being in (full) agreement and vast majority.
-
BR- you have got to stop putting words in peoples quotes.

Also you need to stop using the term THE Baptist Confession of Faith. You need to reference the specific statement of Faith you are referring to.

Unlike the Seventh Day Adventist-Baptists have at least 57 Varieties (as in Heinz 57 Varieties)
of Statement of Faith.

 

[BobRyan]

There is a difference between being in (full) agreement and vast majority.

I only posted section 19 not "all" of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" --

The timidity with which you voice affirmation is expressed at various levels sometimes stronger than others - possibly because you want to hedge or are still undecided in your support of those few statements in section 19 ?? not sure your agenda. It is very easy - 5 short statements in section 19 most of them only 1 sentence. You are free to oppose them all like DHK if you wish. But you should try to own up to whatever part of it you want to claim you agree with --- if at all. Is DHK's war on the BCoF really so intimidating??? If so -- how so??

Also you need to stop using the term THE Baptist Confession of Faith. You need to reference the specific statement of Faith

You keep posting that as if you and I had not both posted the link pointing to the exact document.

Interesting little dance there.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I still don't know what the debate is about. What is the purpose here?

As already answered -

Some people will fully agree with all 7 points of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and those who do will have no problem at all with D.L. Moody's statements on the topic.

They will object to the fact that others here oppose all 7 points listed, and they will object to the 1 point of difference I have with that 7 point list.

Conversely those opposed to ALL 7 points of the Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 will not be happy with it, or with D.L Moody's strong endorsement of what the Bible records as the 4th Commandment as Moody quotes it in his text. They will not be happy with my affirmation of the 6 of the 7 points that they oppose either.

So then... no shortage of debate bandwidth.

As for why I post it - it is because it does away with the "Just SDAs will notice those bible details" sort of argument.

in Christ,

Bob

And your response to that - that imagines that these other guys reject the BCoF just like you do - is nonsense.

Can we not at least agree on that point by now?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I am talking about this thread which was started by you and is now three pages long. I asked the same question here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2184905&postcount=6

What is the purpose? What are you trying to prove? What is the debate?

That is a link to this same thread we are on - where your question was already answered as follows

Some people will fully agree with all 7 points of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and those who do will have no problem at all with D.L. Moody's statements on the topic.

They will object to the fact that others here oppose all 7 points listed, and they will object to the 1 point of difference I have with that 7 point list.

Conversely those opposed to ALL 7 points of the Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 will not be happy with it, or with D.L Moody's strong endorsement of what the Bible records as the 4th Commandment as Moody quotes it in his text. They will not be happy with my affirmation of the 6 of the 7 points that they oppose either.

So then... no shortage of debate bandwidth.

As for why I post it - it is because it does away with the "Just SDAs will notice those bible details" sort of argument.

in Christ,

Bob

And your idea that all other BB Baptists oppose D.L. Moody and the BCoF section 19 just as you do - has yet to be proven - and in Salty's case appears to be disproven though he is pretty timid about defining just how much of section 19 he affirms. IF you are confused about how much Icon and Salty affirm section 19 due to their timidity in admitting to it - I can't blame you.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Salty]

affirm section 19

Please provide link to section 19

 

[BobRyan]

Please provide link to section 19

This is the OP

I have been affirming a number of points made in section 19 by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - showing that I agree with 6 of 7 main points I have identified (summarized) in that section.

I suspect some here will agree with all 7 - and others opposed to the Ten Commandments will oppose all 7 points made in section 19.





====================== answered -

Originally Posted by BobRyan
"BAPTIST Confession of Faith" section 19.

Meanwhile --

[FONT=&quot]Links that remain as of today[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc01.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc19.html[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT][/FONT]

================================================

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- [FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it

==============================

7 summary points --



1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

===============================

Short list of some other groups that affirm 6 or 7 of the points above -

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
--many others
[/FONT]

it has section 19 quoted - it has a link to where you can find section 19 and the way I have posted it here you should be able to click both the OP link and the link to the BCoF to find section 19.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT][/FONT]

So for example when I posted this

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]you [FONT=&quot]had first the link to the BCoF[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]as edited by Spurgeon and then also the direct link[FONT=&quot] to section 19.

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I had hoped [FONT=&quot]my post made that easy and convenient for you.

[FONT=&quot]As stated befor[FONT=&quot]e - I thin[FONT=&quot]k Icon [FONT=&quot]may agree with this section 19 [FONT=&quot]and I suspect OldRegular does as well (And a few others not opposed to S[FONT=&quot]purgeon[FONT=&quot]'s[FONT=&quot] section 19)[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]. But everyone is a bit timid when it comes to th[FONT=&quot]at section -- not sure why. Maybe they prefer to [FONT=&quot]have SDAs affirming [FONT=&quot]6 of the 7 points - of [FONT=&quot]BCoF sectio[FONT=&quot]ns 19[FONT=&quot] and 22[FONT=&quot] -- not Baptists. I don't mind -- [FONT=&quot]I am not shy about stating my [FONT=&quot]beliefs. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT] [/FONT]

 

[Salty]

All I asked for was the link.
Your post normally are so long - I rarely read the entire post.

 

[BobRyan]

I was uncertain as to how many times the link would need to be posted.

 

[Salty]

Your post normally are so long - I rarely read the entire post.

and that goes not just for you - but anyone who consistently writes a thesis for a post.

 

[BobRyan]

So then you found the same text in the section 19 link as in the section 19 quote in the OP. And you objected to which of the 5 one-paragraph (sometimes 1 sentence) statements in Spurgeon's section 19?

 

[DHK]

So then you found the same text in the section 19 link as in the section 19 quote in the OP. And you objected to which of the 5 one-paragraph (sometimes 1 sentence) statements in Spurgeon's section 19?

So let me get this straight.
If I can provide a number of commonalities between the RCC and the Baptists,
(trinity, eternal torment of the wicked, resurrection of the living and the dead, coming of Christ, etc.), that makes the RCC a legitimate religion. They are not alone in their beliefs. This is your argument.

If you can provide a number of commonalities between the SDA and the Baptists (Sunday and Sabbath and law) that somehow makes the SDA a legitimate religion in your eyes. You are not alone in your beliefs, just like the RCC. This is your argument. You are trying to prove here that the SDA has some legitimacy not to be labeled as a cult. Is that what this thread is all about?