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God's wrath on his believers?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brother Bob, Mar 27, 2006.

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  1. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    IMO, the 144,000 Jews are protected during God's outpouring of wrath. They are a firstfruits for the millenium. Are they saved when they are sealed for protection? I don't know. Are they saved because they are protected? I don't know. But they will be in the wrath, yet they will not be harmed by it.

    Additional note: IMO, the great tribulation and God's outpouring of wrath (which begins with the Day of the Lord) are two separate events. God's children (saved) will be here during the great tribulation. They will not be here for the wrath. According to this view of prophecy, the answer to your question therefore depends upon how you look at the 144,000.

    Again, this is just my interpretation of prophecy. Your mileage may vary.
     
    #21 npetreley, Mar 28, 2006
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Npet:
    The 144,000 were on top of Mt.Zion with the Lamb and had already been redeemed from the earth and from among men and goeth wherever the Lamb goes and sing a new song. permit me( I have been redeemed both soul and body)

    I certainly agree that the Tribulations and God's wrath are two different events.
     
    #22 Brother Bob, Mar 28, 2006
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Look at the chronology here:

    12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

    15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

    1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
     
    #23 npetreley, Mar 28, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Revelation, chapter 14


    "1": And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

    "2": And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

    "3": And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts , and the elders: (before the throne of God) and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

    "4": These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    "5": And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

    "6": And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth , (no need to preach when the wrath is getting ready to be pour out) and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    "7": Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    "8": And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    "9": And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

    "10": The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    "11": And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    "12": Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    "13": And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

    It is talking about a longer period of time than just before the wrath, it seems that having their Fathers name written in their foreheads and having the seal might be and I say might be two different things. .
     
    #24 Brother Bob, Mar 28, 2006
  5. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Brother Bob,

    Jesus taught that He will destroy all the wicked
    "on the day He is revealed (apocalypse in Greek).
    Luke 17:30.

    Revelation states that the Lamb is "coming with
    the called, ELECT and faithful". Rev.17:14.

    Jesus also taught that "He will gather the ELECT
    from earth to heaven after the great tribulation
    and then the angels will gather these same ELECT
    together from all extremities of the heavenS".
    Mark 13:24-27; Matt.24:29-31.

    Please note that people on the earth "mourn"
    between the time they see the Son of Man appear
    and the time the angels complete the gathering
    of the Elect from the extremities of the heavenS.
    Matt.24:30-31.

    Not only will "ALL the Saints come with Jesus",
    says Paul in I Thess.3:13, but "God will bring
    all the dead in Christ WITH Jesus". I Thess.4:
    13-14. That means the Tribulation Martyrs will be among all the ELECT that come with Jesus to fulfill Rev.17:14.

    And it means that "those who are alive and who
    survive until the Presence of the Lord will be
    caught up together with the dead in Christ to
    meet the Lord in the air".

    Therefore, no one should doubt that Jesus will
    "raise up every/all believers on the last day!
    This is the Father's Will". John 6:38-40, 44, 54.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #25 Mel Miller, Mar 30, 2006
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