Going into debt to go into the ministry

No, you will get more than a room. You just wont get a luxury suite. If you are too concerned about the money, I'd advise you to pursue another career.

 

MMmmm!! Nothin' on earth like Possum Alfredo!

 

The basic criteria I use when borrowing money is this: If I owe more than I own, then it is debt. When buying a home it is usually easy to recover the money you owe and you do not owe more than you own.

If the value of something appreciates then it is usually a good risk to borrow. If it depreciates then have enough money to backup the opurchase to be able to repay what you owe.

To protect our testimony it usually wise to carefully consider the idea that should something happen to us that I can pay the amount I owe without harming another or my testimony.

I have never seen a single time when debt enhanced a relationship with another. Most of the time it causes problems especially if the borrower cannot repay the loan.

The borrower is always the lender's slave.

Many marriage troubles in ministry are often about money. It is far easier to live on little than to have little and owe.

If a split happens in a church and you do not have enough to live on what would you do.

When you buy a home if your credit is excellent the interest rate will be lower. If oyu put more money down the interest rate will be lower. When the risk is lower the interest rate will be lower.

If one comes ito a church and owes a lot of money, there will be people who will look down on that.

The first place one should go for help is the church. If money were not available there would be a lot more praying and lot more humility in asking others for help.

There was a time when I asked for help and the people who helped me told me that they were glad I asked. Years ago I worked for a man who loked for ways to give to help people. He just wanted to know about the need. He was wealthy and had plenty to live on. I know for a fact that he always sold his almost new cars to his employees who needed it the most for almost nothing. He also gave $100,000 to a missionary who needed it to get some ministry done.

There was a time when I was in the hospital for almost three weeks and could not work for several more. A lot of people helped us. You would be surprised at who helped us. It was mostly people who earned an average amount or less but mostly less.

Today I know I am more giving people because of what I experienced.

 

I make it a practice to not agree with gb...:smilewinkgrin: (j/k).

But I am going to have to make an exception here and add, the more you are in debt when you start your ministry, the more you will rely on the Church for your living. You will become a slave to people in the congregation instead of being a servant of God. You DO NOT want to go down that road. It will destroy your ministry. The more self sufficient you are, the better off you will be. Live within your means.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I recorded and transcribed this from radio back in fall 1992:

Hi, this is HOW TO MANAGE YOUR MONEY with financial teacher, Larry Burkett, founder and president of CHRISTIAN FINANCIAL CONCEPTS. Ever since the days of the Apostle Paul, the Christian church has made it a priority to support missionaries. Well, as Larry tells us today, there's another special group of people the church needs to start supporting as well. Larry.

Well thanks Steve. You know a while back we had a well known Bible teacher on our program while we were at the Christian Booksellers Convention in Atlanta, and he brought up the subject of God's people supporting seminary or Bible College students, in the same manner as supporting missionaries. Well, my wife and I have helped support several students through Bible College, and I believe it's one of the best investments that any Christian can make.

You know, God said that the temporal things of the world would pass away--and even now we can see that that's already happening--but what you'd do for God will never lose its value. Investing in the life and in the ministry of someone who is preparing to share the gospel with other people is going to have multiplied returns.

The fact is, getting through seminary is an extremely difficult task for most married men and their families! And often both the wife and the husband are going to have to work, and they're going to be sacrificing time that one, or both of them, should be spending with their children. Then, when they're finished, we as Christians expect them to come out and live on principles, and little else.

You know, I've seen cases where families have been destroyed while the husband is going through seminary to prepare to teach the gospel!

I believe that to the extent possible, every church in America should support at least one seminary or Bible College student with exactly the same commitment they do a missionary or any other ministry. I also happen to believe that more Christian families should pray about becoming personally involved in helping to train somebody to minister in areas where they cannot go themselves.

You know, most ministries, and some missionaries, have the ability to let their needs be known. But in reality, the average seminary student has a very difficult time, or even fear, about speaking out about their own needs. Christians shouldn't be beggars, but on the other hand, God's Word does not prohibit the asking or the letting a need be known--as best I can tell.

If all Christians in America were totally attuned to the Holy Spirit, and could sense every need of God's people, then these students would never have to ask for help. God depends on those who are attuned to support those who have needs.

The Bible says in James 2:15-16, 'If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to him "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?' Well, you know you can't support everyone who asks, but you can be sensitive to God's leading.

I think it's abysmal that Christian students not only have to work their way through college, but many of them have to sacrifice family and personal time with the Lord.

Investing in people who can invest in others is an eternal investment that all of God's people need to be able to make.

In 1 Timothy 5:17, the Apostle Paul said, 'Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.' In reality, even though a seminary student may be an elder-in-training, he has to work hard, and he is no less worthy of support than a pastor who who is already in the pulpit. I know a lot of seminary students who work harder to prepare for the ministry then they ever will once they are actually ordained and in the pulpit.

Actually, we're all in some phase of training for God's work; and we have to be supportive of one another. Whether one of us in some form of organized training such as seminary, or whether we're actually out teaching the Word, it's important for God's people to understand: "Support those people who teach the Word with all good and precious gifts."

 

Personal account here:

After finishing seminary, I owed about $26,000. Some of this was school-related. Some was medical. About a third of it was "stupid tax."

After being out of seminary 1 year, I owed $35,000. Long story, but a church mistake, coupled with a couple of big purchases, pushed us up to here. It got tough. We nearly hit bottom, and it took years to pay off everything. (When things were at their worst, our monthly payments for this debt were nearly $800 per month).

After a few years of hard work, we're completely debt free--I and my family have no car debt, credit card debt, or other debt--except for my house (and about 30 percent equity there). It meant going without what many folks consider "necessities"--cable TV, air in either car, cell phones, internet, eating out, and more. Now that we've paid off our bills, and live on a budget, I wish I would have never charged a thing. We own no credit cards, and God willing, never will again. Like I said, I don't claim debt to be a sin, but for us it was very unwise.

When you're in debt, it becomes easier in ministry to...
-be preoccupied with your own financial situation. Been there.
-Let the "stress" get to you.
-Not take vacations because you "can't afford it." Then you reap those consequences (burnout, grumpiness, etc.).
-Become frustrated with your pay situation (I know ministers with this issue...sometimes they're justified; others, they simply have misplaced their anger).
-Feel guilty in counseling others (I felt really hypocritical counseling families about finances when mine were a mess. And I was.).

Before you go the debt route, pick up Dave Ramsey's book Financial Peace or Total Money Makeover. God bless you as you serve him.

 

Apply again. Talk to your Church about supporting you in seminary. Exhaust every possiblility before you throw yourself into more debt.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Link to financial aid at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. They offer the same kind of short term loans for seminary that I had at Southwestern. There are also opportunities for grants and scholarships. You should at least check them out and try to get them.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I honestly dont know of anywhere that a family can live well on $15,000 a year. We lived in a resort town on that, and that is why we incurred credit card debt. We had to charge groceries many times (and just paid that credit card off over the summer 9 years later).

The deal is this: if you have to get a loan to go to school, and God is calling you to go to school, then do it. But dont think that you will pay it off easily when you get out and get a nice church. My husband has 2 Masters and is almost done with a PhD, and I have a Masters. We are both on staff at a church and I also teach full time. Sometimes we barely get by, and we dont have the "toys" that many others have. Education doesnt = $$ in the life of ministry. Sometimes, folks do well, bust most that I know struggle just like us. Just be sure to do your planning wearing your long term glasses.

 

I didn't see any Scripture posted; though I did see ONE allusion to it.

("Very interesting...but stupid", said Henry Gibson.)

I also find it interesting that you say your are called and yet you come on here asking for opinions. Have you even bothered to look and see what God's word has to say about debt?

Pr 22:7
¶ The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

And I thought you wanted to go into the ministry to serve God. Silly me. What you seem to be saying is that God called you into the ministry to serve the people you are going to borrow from to pay for your schooling.

Quite frankly friend, without meaning to be offensive, I think you are here looking for permission to do something which the Holy Spirit has told you not to do.

 

I agree. Exhaust your non-debt options; but, don't keep at it forever.

You cannot control people. God may wish for others to support you through seminary but they may not obey. So what do you do? Scrap things? I don't think so. In that case, I say take out the debt - become a slave for a season.

And it may be that being a sort of slave like that will be a crucially important part of your preparation for ministry. My years-long pathway through poverty and debt sure were for me and my ministry, something I would not trade for anything in the world at this point.

 

You gotta love that phrase "without meaning to be offensive."

Call other people's posts stupid and question a guy's motive for ministry. Sure...nothing offensive there.

Jim, I didn't quote scripture, but I gave Biblically sound advice. And I didn't insult folks in doing so.

It's OK to be nice. Give it a try.

 

Jim

That being nice is not all it is cracked up to be . . .



Now I did not read all of the posts - so I won't say if you were being too mean spirited or not . . .

But, you know everyone else will

God bless

Wayne

 

It IS stupid to offer advice without Scripture. Without Scripture all one has left is the wisdom of this world. Which, by the way, IS stupid, or if you prefer...foolish. 1Co 1:20
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

Secondly; though my sarcasm didn't translate to type very well: the point was that if one is serving debt then HOW does he expect to serve God who tells him plainly...Pr 22:26
¶ Be not thou one of them that strike hands, or of them that are sureties for debts.
Pr 22:27
If thou hast nothing to pay, why should he take away thy bed from under thee?
If he has nothing to pay then he ought not "strike hands" to incur debt in the pretense of training to serve God. I don't doubt his honest desire to serve God and get training for it. I paid for all of my training as I went along. Took me ten years to do it but when I graduated I was debt free. I owed the school nothing. And I believe that Scripture proves that this is God's will for the minister. In fact it is God's will for ALL His children, as the following proves.


Mt 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The Bible says that the debtor is servant to the lender, therefore HOW can he hope to serve TWO masters if Jesus says he can't?????

As for being nice...I WAS being nice. In giving Scripture to someone for their edification, IMO that IS nice. Sorry you don't think so.
For all of you reading this:
When in doubt, go to the Scriptures and believe it and obey it!

Have a NICE day.:applause: