Good Friday?

[Dr. Bob]

Sadducees (who controlled the Temple and Judean Judaism) had a different interpretation of the timing of Passover, first day of unleavened bread (high Sabbath) 7th day of unleavened bread, First-fruit. Almost all the rest of Judaism worked on a Pharisee scheduled interpretation which started a day earlier. Nothing to do with our calendars, but interpreting the Mishnah. Another "division" among Sadducees/Pharisees that come to play throughout the NT.

Some try to make Jesus' eating NOT the Passover but seudah maphehket or special "last supper" that many Galileans had 24 hours before Passover. That flies in the face of so many places referring to this as Passover (it was "part" of Passover but not the seder itself)

 

[Zuno Yazh]

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The 3rd day started at sundown Saturday.

No; that was the beginning of the third night.

You know, it's tragic that supposed adults can't tell the difference between evening and morning when underage kids not yet in kindergarten can do it with ease.

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[loDebar]

Sadducees (who controlled the Temple and Judean Judaism) had a different interpretation of the timing of Passover, first day of unleavened bread (high Sabbath) 7th day of unleavened bread, First-fruit. Almost all the rest of Judaism worked on a Pharisee scheduled interpretation which started a day earlier. Nothing to do with our calendars, but interpreting the Mishnah. Another "division" among Sadducees/Pharisees that come to play throughout the NT.

Some try to make Jesus' eating NOT the Passover but seudah maphehket or special "last supper" that many Galileans had 24 hours before Passover. That flies in the face of so many places referring to this as Passover (it was "part" of Passover but not the seder itself)

I understand there have been many changes through the years.
The types of Jesus in the Seder makes it clear He was being shown as the Lamb,

The question I have is it important to show the Last Supper as a Seder? Is not the "last supper" the feast of the preparation?
Does this not suggest He was dead before Passover?

Does Matthew have the Seder early?


Mat 27:62
Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate
And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Mat 27:63
Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

 

[atpollard]

Can any of this be reconciled with the very clear Luke chapter 24?
It was the First Day of the week (Sunday).
It was the third day since ‘all this happened’.
Jesus was making his first post-resurrection appearances.

I don’t see that ever working with a Tuesday or Wednesday crucifixion.

 

[loDebar]

Can any of this be reconciled with the very clear Luke chapter 24?
It was the First Day of the week (Sunday).
It was the third day since ‘all this happened’.
Jesus was making his first post-resurrection appearances.

I don’t see that ever working with a Tuesday or Wednesday crucifixion.

Work backwards, ..as Jonah ....three days ,, three nights.

Saturday night. and day
Friday night and day
Thursday night and day

Thursday began at sunset, He was dead afternoon Wed, buried before Passover at sunset

 

[Zuno Yazh]

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According to John 1:1-3 and John 1:14, classical Christianity's Jesus Christ is God.

Therefore, when classical Christianity's Jesus Christ spoke; he not only spoke for God, but also spoke as God.

That being the case, then I think it is sensible for Baptists to pay attention to classical Christianity's Jesus Christ; especially since he comes so highly recommended.

"He is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's spirit is upon him without measure or limit." (John 3:34)

"This is My beloved son, with whom I am well-pleased: listen to him." (Matt 17:5)

Now, according to God speaking; there were not twenty-four hours in a day when His son was here; no, there was a maximum of twelve, and those twelve took place in daytime when the sun was up rather than nighttime when the sun was down. (John 11:9)

I am provoked and disgusted when I see what appear to be Baptists turning a deaf ear to God speaking by insisting that the three days His son spoke of at Matt 12:40 began at sundown. It implies that both God and His son are so uneducated and so intellectually challenged that neither of them know night from day, nor light from dark, nor morning from evening.

"God called the light day, and the darkness He called night." (Gen 1:5)

So, by listening to God speaking in the book of Genesis, and by listening to God speaking in the gospel of John; I am instantly informed that the days His son spoke of at Matt 12:40 consisted of a maximum twelve hours when the sun was up; and the nights that he spoke of consisted of a maximum twelve hours when the sun was down.

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[atpollard]

Work backwards, ..as Jonah ....three days ,, three nights.

Saturday night. and day
Friday night and day
Thursday night and day

Thursday began at sunset, He was dead afternoon Wed, buried before Passover at sunset

Then that was not the third day since all these things happened, Saturday was. Jesus, the angel and the disciples were all confused in Luke 24. (Or the fourth day is really the third day).

 

[loDebar]

Then that was not the third day since all these things happened, Saturday was. Jesus, the angel and the disciples were all confused in Luke 24. (Or the fourth day is really the third day).

Jesus was confused?

Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Three complete days and nights, Sat, Fri, Thurs, Saturday was over , First day of the week, Jesus was already gone

 

[Reynolds]

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No; that was the beginning of the third night.

You know, it's tragic that supposed adults can't tell the difference between evening and morning when underage kids not yet in kindergarten can do it with ease.

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So, why are you having problems with it?

 

[atpollard]

Jesus was confused?

Luke 24:1
1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

[the Angels]
Luke 24:6-7
6He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”

[the disciples]
Luke 24:19-21
19 And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

[Jesus]
Luke 24:45-46
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,

Everyone in Luke 24 seems to think that Sunday is the “third day” since THIS was Sunday and THIS was the third day and Jesus said he would rise the third day.

You do a disservice to pretend that Luke 24 offers no contradiction to a Wednesday - Saturday burial.

 

[robycop3]

One thing for certain - Jesus was not crucified on a Friday. No amount of calendar gerrymandering could make three days & nights outta a period from Friday til Sunday morning.

I believe "Good Friday" is a MAN-MADE "holiday".

 

[loDebar]

Luke 24:1
1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

[the Angels]
Luke 24:6-7
6He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”

[the disciples]
Luke 24:19-21
19 And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

[Jesus]
Luke 24:45-46
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,

Everyone in Luke 24 seems to think that Sunday is the “third day” since THIS was Sunday and THIS was the third day and Jesus said he would rise the third day.

You do a disservice to pretend that Luke 24 offers no contradiction to a Wednesday - Saturday burial.

He was gone by Sunday morning. Completing three days

What is the problem?

Did He arise before sunset Sat? I don't know if He meant to complete 3 days then arise or arise during the third day, We know as the angels said He was gone early Sunday.

 

[Zuno Yazh]

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While discussing Good Friday with one of its defenders, my opponent suggested that the darkness that took place while Jesus was nailed to the cross was one of the three nights that he predicted at Matt 12:40.

Well; of course that doesn't work because Jesus was alive during those hours of darkness on the cross. The three nights he predicted at Matt 12:40 were to take place while he was deceased and tucked away in the heart of the earth.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' corpse was never in the heart of the earth. It wasn't even in the earth's soil. His corpse was laid to rest on the surface of the earth in a rock-hewn tomb.

Jesus compared his experience with Jonah's nautical adventure. A careful examination of the finer points of the second chapter of his prophecy reveals that although Jonah was alive while in the fish, he wasn't alive the whole time. No, at some point in his ordeal, Jonah went to a place called sheol, which he described as the bottoms of the mountains.

Well; even a school kid with an elementary knowledge of science knows that the bottoms of the mountains aren't in the tummy of a fish; nor are the bottoms of the mountains in the sea. No; the bottoms of the mountains are many, many, miles below both the fish and the sea.

If what I'm saying here is true, then at some point in his adventure; Jonah was quite dead.

"To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But you brought my life up from the pit, O Yhvh my God. (Jonah 2:6)

The Hebrew word translated "pit" sometimes refers to putrefaction. In other words "brought up my life" speaks of Jonah's resurrection.

According to Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-31 Jesus too was spared putrefaction by means of his resurrection.

According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are perishable. However; though the body is perishable by any means, the soul is perishable only by divine means; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't simultaneous, which readily indicates that once the body and the soul are separated, it becomes possible to relocate the soul. In the cases of Jonah and Jesus; their souls were transferred to the bottoms of the mountains.

This it all came to pass just as predicted: "as Jonah . . . so the Son of Man."

Both their bodies underwent death, both their souls spent some time in the netherworld, and both their bodies were raised from the dead within the space of three days and three nights.

/

 

[atpollard]

What is the problem?

Luke 24:19-21

19 And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.​

When did they say that? Saturday ... no Sunday!
The third day since "the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him" was Sunday according to the disciples.
But what do they know?

 

[loDebar]

Are you saying after three days or on the third day?

Later Sunday, on the road to Emmaus they said the same thing, It had been three days since things occurred
Three days had been completed.

It is the same problem we have in language today.

 

[Dr. Bob]

When using "day" = a 24 hour period or PART of it. Nothing to do with daytime or nighttime. Light/Dark are all part of a "day".

Amazed that some can't grasp time-telling. The Jewish "day" (24-hour "yom") is based on creation, beginning at sundown. How did GOD view it? The evening and the morning were the first day, etc. We would say today "day and night", just the opposite way God did in "dark and light".

Our definition of day should NOT come into play. Who cares if our Western culture uses midnight to midnight to reckon time. We are looking at the record Judaism 2000 years ago.

 

[Zuno Yazh]

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We are looking at the record Judaism 2000 years ago.

Jesus Christ-- whom John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 testify is God --was a citizen in the land of Israel 2,000 years ago; so I think that he, as both God and citizen, would know better than anybody alive today how to count and/or define days and nights back then.

According to Jesus Christ's understanding-- as both God and citizen --days were when the sun is up and nights were when the sun is down. (John 11:9)

I trust God's intelligence; and I believe in His son Jesus Christ. I don't think either one of them are ever wrong about anything, especially something as elementary as the properties of day and night.

I've participated on several Good Friday forums in the last 21 years and it never fails that somebody muddies the waters by interpreting Matt 12:40 with Jewish 24-hour civil time keeping; thus making it virtually impossible for curious visitors to make any sense out of the chronology of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.

It's not too difficult to appreciate just how serious this is relative to the outside world. If they can be persuaded to mock Easter week's sequence of events, then they can be just as easily persuaded that Jesus' resurrection never happened. As a result they will miss the opportunity to be exonerated per Rom 4:25. A record of their sins will remain on the books, hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles. Out ahead, at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15, those books will be opened for review. How tragic it is when Christians are Christ's own worst enemies of the cross.

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[loDebar]

Why uphold incorrect assumptions trying to prove an incorrect position?

There is no mystery here just misunderstanding based upon the definition of Sabbaths to include the Poss over

 

[robycop3]

We must remember Jesus did everything ABSOLUTELY-CORRECTLY, according to His Father's law. Thus, He ate the paschal meal on the CORRECT day. He was NOT accused by anyone of defiling the passover. Thus, the time JESUS ate the paschal meal was the CORRECT time!

And in John 18:28. the "passover" therein referred to was the special unleavened means to be eaten all week. Remember, Ezekiel 45:21, a quote from GOD HIMSELF, says passover is seven days long. Thus, the days of unleavened bread are part of passover.

 

[Billx]

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● Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Any child able to do simple arithmetic on the fingers of one hand can instantly deduce that Good Friday doesn't fit Matt 12:40 because there just isn't enough nights between Friday and Sunday-- there's only two; Jesus' prediction calls for three.

● John 19:31 . . Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath-- for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one --the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down.

There are more sabbaths in the Bible besides the usual seventh day. For example:

Yom Kippur (Lev 23:32)
Feast of Trumpets (Lev 23:23-25)
Feast of Unleavened Bread; a,k.a. Passover. (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:5-8)

Passover sabbath is interesting. The usual sabbath always falls on the very same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats; hence it can, and it does, occur on any given day of the week; sometimes even coincident with the usual sabbath; for example 2018, and sometimes consecutive with the usual sabbath; for example 2008.

The solemn sabbath that John mentioned is the Passover sabbath. It was consecutive with the regular sabbath that year. As a result the Jews had to observe two sabbaths in a row.

Weaving the solemn sabbath into the chronology of Matt 12:40 in order to obtain a third night is actually fairly easy once you're aware of it. But be forewarned; there are a number of Good Friday's defenders who refuse to allow the solemn sabbath to be other than the usual sabbath; and they've concocted some very convincing sophistry to support their view.

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CCTV​