Good Verses Evil Men

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Darrell: What good works did the thief on the cross do?

HP: Jesus said, unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. Scripture tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God. We know that Christ told him, that very day he would be with Him in paradise. I would say that the thief had to have shown sincere remorse which is at the heart of repentance, and exercised faith in Christ. Those are both works God calls on man to perform. Faith clearly involves a voluntary act of ones will, and in that sense is a work. What else could he have done??

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

As we end the old and enter the New Year, we all reflect and purpose.

We are discussing good men verses evil men. As I reflect on the New Year, I purpose in my heart to live my life in such a way as to to hear these words promised to the overcomer, "Well done thou GOOD and faithful servant!" If we remain faithful to the end, those words alone will be worth it all!

May God bless and keep each one of you in His love this coming year and beyond!
:godisgood: Happy New Year!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Faith clearly involves a voluntary act of ones will, and in that sense is a work.

So from what you said am I right in assuming that you believe a person can "will" himself to believe the gospel?

How can someone will himself to believe something which he does not yet believe?

Let us look at your argument more cloself. If we are willing ourselves to believe something then that means we have not yet believed that thing.

Right?

And since we have not yet believed that thing how is it possible for us to "will" ourselves to believe something which we do not yet believe?

I say that a person believes things based on the "evidence" at his disposal. For instance, a person who has a knowledge of basic arithmetic cannot "will" himself to believe that five plus five equals anything other than ten.

Biblical faith is based on the evidence provided when the gospel is preached and that evidence remains an integral part of a person's belief system after he is saved:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).

 

[DHK]

Those are both works God calls on man to perform. Faith clearly involves a voluntary act of ones will, and in that sense is a work. What else could he have done??

Faith is not a work. It is not something you DO. It is confidence, trust. It is not a work. It is an intangible. You cannot DO faith.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK, I know we disagree on this point. I think about it often and how to approach the issue of faith. I would simply maintain that without an act of the will, no faith in any saving sense, can take place. Certainly we are passive in the measure of faith, making faith possible by providing knowledge and the substance to rely or trust in.

The faith that God requires of man for salvation or to please Him requires voluntary agreement to the message of salvation or trusting God, by the formation of an intent to exercise faith in the atonement, and that God is and a rewarder of good to all that obey Him.

Every work in its inception, first starts as an act of the will. Our faith begins in the same way, by the formation of an intent. Man is the first cause of the exercising of his faith, not God. God plants the seed, but man has to voluntarily act upon that seed of faith for it to be counted to us as righteousness in salvation.

 

[DHK]

Every work in its inception, first starts as an act of the will. Our faith begins in the same way, by the formation of an intent. Man is the first cause of the exercising of his faith, not God. God plants the seed, but man has to voluntarily act upon that seed of faith for it to be counted to us as righteousness in salvation.

Even if your description is right, that is what it remains, a description. It doesn't change the fact that faith is not a work. Jesus said that one must have faith as a little child. Little children don't work. But they do have trust and confidence in their parents. They don't get paid for doing so. It is not a work that they do. They don't merit anything for doing so. It is nothing that they are doing. Faith is an intangible. Little children have faith at a very young age, even from infancy. They may not have the "faith" to understand the gospel message. But they have enough faith to comprehend who is their mother, their father, as opposed to a stranger, and which one will protect them. In the one that they know will protect them they will put their faith and trust. Have faith as a little child--simple, child-like faith. It is not a work.

 

[Darrell C]

HP: I missed that one in Scripture. Can you give me a reference?

Well, for one, the two witnesses. Clearly they are resurrected and called into heaven. Notice that this happens within the Second Woe, before it can be argued that the Lord has returned.

That is a good place to start.

HP: Jesus said, unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. Scripture tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God. We know that Christ told him, that very day he would be with Him in paradise. I would say that the thief had to have shown sincere remorse which is at the heart of repentance, and exercised faith in Christ. Those are both works God calls on man to perform. Faith clearly involves a voluntary act of ones will, and in that sense is a work. What else could he have done??

While the quote that has me saying "What works did the thief do" is definitely something that I would ask, I do not remember asking this in this thread.

I think it quite possible that this may have been dredged up from an old thread that someone's conscience might be eased...lol.

Am I right?

To add to the question...when exactly was the thief baptized?

What works of righteousness did he perform to garner the faith and hope and promise of Christ?

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Every work in its inception, first starts as an act of the will. Our faith begins in the same way, by the formation of an intent. Man is the first cause of the exercising of his faith, not God. God plants the seed, but man has to voluntarily act upon that seed of faith for it to be counted to us as righteousness in salvation.

So man created the word spoken to Adam, to Cain, to Abraham, to Moses.

Man apart from the word of God knew his sin, knew his need for repentance, knew the will of God?

Before stating that man knew this based upon Romans 1-2, keep in mind that it is an awareness of God, not God's revealed will that is more in view. While they may have known of God's existence, we can determine by the statement that Gentiles were ignorant, that they were still in need of direct revelation, right?

Man may have known, for example, of a need to offer sacrifice. Most occasions see offering sacrifice was not to God, and not according to His will.

God bless.