"Good Works"

[Ray Berrian]

Are good works an element of eternal salvation? Two interesting verses are Titus 3:8 ' . . . I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.' Secondly, Titus 3:14 which says, 'And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.'

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Are good works an element of eternal salvation? Two interesting verses are Titus 3:8 ' . . . I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.' Secondly, Titus 3:14 which says, 'And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.'

I would say that good works go hand in hand with salvation. The entire book of James is built upon the premise that "Faith without works is dead." (Of course, Luther, I think, wanted to remove that book from the canon. Wonder why?)

 

[ScottEmerson]

After doing some research, I found that Luther also rejected the book of Job, Hebrews, and Revelation, while saying that in his Preface to the New Testament that ". . . John's Gospel is the one, tender, true chief Gospel, far, far to be preferred to the other three and placed high above them. So, too, the Epistles of St. Paul and St. Peter far surpass the other three Gospels - Matthew, Mark, and Luke."

 

[Dualhunter]

8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB

Saved by grace through faith, not by works. We are created in Christ for good works, not by works.

17 Therefore if anyone is (1) in Christ, he is (2) a new creature; (3) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB

Good works follow as a result of being in Christ but our works do not play any role in putting us in Christ nor in keeping us in Christ.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
(Of course, Luther, I think, wanted to remove that book from the canon. Wonder why?)

Total Depravity, anyone ?

 

[Aki]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Are good works an element of eternal salvation?

in danger of being too simplistic, God will only accept those souls whose rigteousness are the the same as that of God - that is, perfect.

thus, for salvation, what is necessary is one that will make man perfect in the sight of God the Father. upon faith in Christ, imputation of His righteousness is imputed, which satisfies - and will always satisfy - God the Father!

maintenance of that righteousness will depend actually on Christ's faithfulness, not on the believer's. Thank God!!!

[ August 20, 2002, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Aki ]

 

[Ray Berrian]

Scott Emmerson,

In seminary they told us that Luther wanted to remove the Book of James from the canon, because he so ardently believed in justification by faith alone.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Dualhunter,

Your last paragraph explains my question about as good as it will ever be explained to Christians. We are saved by grace through faith, but our works are valuable so as to show the world that Christ really does change our lives. At the Judgment Seat of Christ every Christian will be rewarded by the Lord because of our obedience to obey Him, [I Cor. 3:13-14] in maintaining good works as mandated in Titus chapter three verses eight and fourteen. Christians who live an undisciplined life will make it into Heaven but will be denied 'rewards' from the Lord. [I Cor. 3:15]. Our creative, service for the One, True God gives us an opportunity to be fully committed to Him. When entering Heaven we will notice that not all saints are of the same caliber. Some will have more honorable standing than we have, while others will have less authority than ourselves.

 

[hrhema]

In John chapter five when Jesus was talking about resurrection he said, "Indeed the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God's son,and they will rise again. Those who have done GOOD WILL RISE TO ETERNAL LIFE.

So why did Jesus say this if doing good things is not part of what saves us?

 

[Dualhunter]

40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who (1) beholds the Son and (2) believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will (3) raise him up on the last day." - John 6:40 NASB

 

[KenH]

I believe the reward is heaven. Besides, God determines what works we are going to do, so the arrangements in the new heavens and earth are by God's decree.

(Eph 2:10 NKJV) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by hrhema:
So why did Jesus say this if doing good things is not part of what saves us?

I believe the book of Romans destroys completely the idea of mixing works into salvation.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[hrhema]

Then we have a problem because what you are saying is that what Paul wrote in Romans supersedes what Jesus said.

There are many many more scriptures in the New Testament that tells us that we are to obey commandments. That we are to live a moral life. Now either these are works or they are not works. Somehow this all has to work into salvation one way or the other.

So many people say if it is part of salvation then it isn't grace but again as I have said before just the fact that God deals with anybody is grace in itself.

Not to get off the subject but this is similar to scriptures where Jesus said He that believeth and is Baptized shall be saved. Here Jesus adds baptism to believing. Also Peter made a similar statement that Baptism doth now save us. I understand that people say all they say on this subject but how can we override what the Lord said and what Peter who had the keys said. Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be born of the water and of the spirit. Many people say this is water in the woman before birth but when you read in 1 John 5 John makes it very clear that there are three things that witness together, the water, the spirit and the blood. We know that John spoke of Jesus' baptism beforehand so the water John spoke of is baptismal water. How can you overlook three scriptures dealing with Baptism and the many many scriptures dealing with works.

 

[KayDee]

Good works are the fruit of our salvation. If we produce good fruit we are in Him. If we produce bad fruit, we are still in our sins. Good works can not save us but if we don’t show or produce good works after our profession of faith, it is proof we are not His. A good tree can not produce bad fruit just as a bad tree can not produce good fruit. Luke 6:43-44, Mat 7:16-20

KD

 

[Dualhunter]

Originally posted by hrhema:
Then we have a problem because what you are saying is that what Paul wrote in Romans supersedes what Jesus said.

There are many many more scriptures in the New Testament that tells us that we are to obey commandments. That we are to live a moral life. Now either these are works or they are not works. Somehow this all has to work into salvation one way or the other.

So many people say if it is part of salvation then it isn't grace but again as I have said before just the fact that God deals with anybody is grace in itself.

Not to get off the subject but this is similar to scriptures where Jesus said He that believeth and is Baptized shall be saved. Here Jesus adds baptism to believing. Also Peter made a similar statement that Baptism doth now save us. I understand that people say all they say on this subject but how can we override what the Lord said and what Peter who had the keys said. Jesus said to Nicodemus you must be born of the water and of the spirit. Many people say this is water in the woman before birth but when you read in 1 John 5 John makes it very clear that there are three things that witness together, the water, the spirit and the blood. We know that John spoke of Jesus' baptism beforehand so the water John spoke of is baptismal water. How can you overlook three scriptures dealing with Baptism and the many many scriptures dealing with works.

8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, (6) created in (7) Christ Jesus for (8) good works, which God (9) prepared beforehand so that we would (10) walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB

Saved by grace through faith, not by works. We are created in Christ for good works, not by works.

17 Therefore if anyone is (1) in Christ, he is (2) a new creature; (3) the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB

Good works follow as a result of being in Christ but our works do not play any role in putting us in Christ nor in keeping us in Christ.

 

[Ray Berrian]

KayDee,

Excellent post. 'Good works are the fruit of our salvation.' True!

 

[KayDee]

Originally posted by Ken:

I believe the reward is heaven.

Ken - could you help me understand what you mean by this. A reward, to me, would suggest we did something to earn heaven...which I'm sure you don't mean.

KD

 

[Sovereign Grace]

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." {Eph. 2:10}

Good works follow salvation. Eternal salvation is alone by grace.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by hrhema:
Not to get off the subject but this is similar to scriptures where Jesus said He that believeth and is Baptized shall be saved. Here Jesus adds baptism to believing. Also Peter made a similar statement that Baptism doth now save us.

Are you saying that baptism is necessary for salvation as the Church of Christ teaches?

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[hrhema]

In Revelation 21 when we read about the White Throne judgements we see where the books are opened and the people are judged by what they did and by their deeds.

The Pauline Epistles seem to clash with the four gospels, the Book of James, The books of Peter and John. There has been fierce debates for years from theologians of why there seems to be such vast differences between the Jewish Christian leaders and Paul who was a Jew but was the Apostle to the Gentiles.

Some believe there are two gospels. The gospel of works with faith for the Jewish believers and the gospel of faith only for the Gentiles.