Interesting statement - I have started a new thread on this:
How Autonomous
I suppose that when I mentioned other churches, I did mean churches of the denomination -
but suppose a church has no denomination?
-
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Goverment of a Baptist church
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Interesting statement - I have started a new thread on this:
How Autonomous
I suppose that when I mentioned other churches, I did mean churches of the denomination -
but suppose a church has no denomination?
The leadership still should have connections to a bigger resource from which to have accountability. A cord of one is easily broken.
37818
Well-Known Member
Based on the the written word of God, who today?
In the NT example, we see the "first generation" problem - new church with no elders and what do you do?
Paul wrote Timothy and Titus and explained it was their mission to train up these new Jewish or pagan men to be the leaders and then, when trained and qualified (good report from community and congregation) they should ordain them to lead the congregation. Those three letters give BIBLICAL answer.
That is pretty much what missionaries do. To NOT have a leader qualified/trained means the missionary or previous pastor did not do the job as God proscribed.
Paul wrote Timothy and Titus and explained it was their mission to train up these new Jewish or pagan men to be the leaders and then, when trained and qualified (good report from community and congregation) they should ordain them to lead the congregation. Those three letters give BIBLICAL answer.
That is pretty much what missionaries do. To NOT have a leader qualified/trained means the missionary or previous pastor did not do the job as God proscribed.
and some examples?
The IFB or the IFCA. While they call themselves independent, they have a common link to one another. When pastors are ordained, the other fundamental pastor's come as the ordination counsel to either approve of ordination, or not approve. Even independent churches have means of oversight.
and sometimes NOT - a church by itself may ordain a man.
and the IFCA is a denomination
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Baptist History Homepage
[p. 7]
We have observed the persecution of truth, first of Israel and secondly of the church.
Satan persecuted the churches of Jesus Christ first by the Jews.
This persecution is recorded in the book of Acts.
It is also mentioned in some of the Epistles of the New Testament.
Next, Satan used the Roman Empire
to persecute the churches of the Lord Jesus Christ.
There were at least ten severe persecutions beginning with Nero
and ending with Diocletian.
We will devote space to these in the next chapter.
These persecutions resulted in the death of a very large number of Christians.
Satan used the Roman Empire to persecute the Lord's churches
while he was establishing a church of his own with which to oppose
and persecute the true churches of Jesus Christ.
Much of this Baptist History Notebook
will deal with the development of Satan's church
(the synagogue of Satan)
and its persecution of the churches of our Lord.
Christ's Church Built
Doing this, we must begin with the church which Jesus built
and observe how Satan sought to corrupt it from within
which resulted in a separation by the pure churches from the corrupt churches.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock
I will build My church:
and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it"
(Matthew 16:18).
The word "church" means assembly.
The Lord said He would build "His" (My) church.
This was to distinguish it from all other kinds of assemblies.
He built His "kind" of assembly.
That which distinguishes His
from all the rest are the doctrines He gave to it.
Those doctrinal peculiarities make it His kind of church.
What are those marks or doctrinal peculiarities?
Dr. J. R. Graves in his book "Old Landmarkism" lists seven.
Dr. Clarence Walker, in his introduction to the "Trail of Blood" (page 5) lists seven.
Dr. D. B. Ray, in his "Baptist Succession" lists seven.
[p. 8]
To these could be added or subtracted,
depending on the historian and what his purpose might be.
Where one would list two doctrines under one head
the next may list them separately.
I will list eight but treat primarily three in this Notebook.
(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).
(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).
(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).
(6) It has but two ordinances;
Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
Wherever, in history, in whatever age,
you find churches teaching these doctrines,
you have a Baptist church, no matter what name it may go by.
...
So today, when we look at so-called churches
and see that they look a lot like the first one,
let us look closely.
If they do not meet the Bible description,
conclude that they are not of the first church.
Thus we believe that Baptist churches are identified in history
by their doctrines.
It is where these "truths" or doctrines are stood for
and taught that we will be able to observe the "Trail of Blood."
The history of these "kind" of churches is written in blood.
Here you will find outward manifestations of the battle
between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Satan.
"why do you persecute Me?"
It matters not if we cannot, from church to church,
trace it back to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
What it teaches is the important thing.
Jesus said the gates of hell
would not prevail against His church
so He guaranteed perpetuity.
Baptist History Notebook
JESUS ESTABLISHES HIS CHURCHChapter 2
We have observed the persecution of truth, first of Israel and secondly of the church.
Satan persecuted the churches of Jesus Christ first by the Jews.
This persecution is recorded in the book of Acts.
It is also mentioned in some of the Epistles of the New Testament.
Next, Satan used the Roman Empire
to persecute the churches of the Lord Jesus Christ.
There were at least ten severe persecutions beginning with Nero
and ending with Diocletian.
We will devote space to these in the next chapter.
These persecutions resulted in the death of a very large number of Christians.
Satan used the Roman Empire to persecute the Lord's churches
while he was establishing a church of his own with which to oppose
and persecute the true churches of Jesus Christ.
Much of this Baptist History Notebook
will deal with the development of Satan's church
(the synagogue of Satan)
and its persecution of the churches of our Lord.
Christ's Church Built
Doing this, we must begin with the church which Jesus built
and observe how Satan sought to corrupt it from within
which resulted in a separation by the pure churches from the corrupt churches.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock
I will build My church:
and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it"
(Matthew 16:18).
The word "church" means assembly.
The Lord said He would build "His" (My) church.
This was to distinguish it from all other kinds of assemblies.
He built His "kind" of assembly.
That which distinguishes His
from all the rest are the doctrines He gave to it.
Those doctrinal peculiarities make it His kind of church.
What are those marks or doctrinal peculiarities?
Dr. J. R. Graves in his book "Old Landmarkism" lists seven.
Dr. Clarence Walker, in his introduction to the "Trail of Blood" (page 5) lists seven.
Dr. D. B. Ray, in his "Baptist Succession" lists seven.
[p. 8]
To these could be added or subtracted,
depending on the historian and what his purpose might be.
Where one would list two doctrines under one head
the next may list them separately.
I will list eight but treat primarily three in this Notebook.
(1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).
(2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
(II Timothy 3:15-17).
(3) Its members are to be only saved people
(Acts 2:41).
(4) Its government is congregational
(Acts 1:23-26 - equality).
(5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
(Ephesians 2:8-9).
(6) It has but two ordinances;
Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
and these are symbolic
(Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).
(7) Its commission is inclusive
(Matthew 28:16-20).
(8) It is independent
(Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).
Wherever, in history, in whatever age,
you find churches teaching these doctrines,
you have a Baptist church, no matter what name it may go by.
...
So today, when we look at so-called churches
and see that they look a lot like the first one,
let us look closely.
If they do not meet the Bible description,
conclude that they are not of the first church.
Thus we believe that Baptist churches are identified in history
by their doctrines.
It is where these "truths" or doctrines are stood for
and taught that we will be able to observe the "Trail of Blood."
The history of these "kind" of churches is written in blood.
Here you will find outward manifestations of the battle
between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Satan.
"why do you persecute Me?"
It matters not if we cannot, from church to church,
trace it back to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
What it teaches is the important thing.
Jesus said the gates of hell
would not prevail against His church
so He guaranteed perpetuity.
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