Grace and discipleship

[webdog]

Did you have any "real" proof that SeekingHisTruth was Jason Jump? Just curious .

Silence speaks volumes. Proof enough for me. I have no idea why the mod's are allowing you to continue posting.

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

I don't call people names.

Unfortunately not all here hold to this same idea sadly enough.

I don't question other's salvation.

That's good as well!

I do speak my mind.

I try not to speak mind, because I don't have much to spare .

And I don't "love" false doctrines and I will fight against them even if people don't like me for it.

I didn't say that we should not stand against false doctrines. Why do you think I'm taking such a stand against this notion that we need to add to the simple message of believe on the Lord Jesus. Folks here are espousing a false doctrine and adding in all kinds of things, making Paul to be a liar and that must be spoken against.

My point to you was that a "militant" attitude is probably not the best way to go about speaking out against false doctrines. I think we need to speak the Truth in love. And by that we simply let the Scriptures speak for themselves and then stand back out of the way.

A war against the lies and deception of the devil.

Yes, but we have to remember that this "war" is not "physical" but spiritual in nature.

I think it is far more loving to expose the lies of false teachings than to ignore it because I am afraid I might offend someone.

Couldn't agree with you more!

Ignoring false teachings and not defending the faith is what has caused so much apostasy in the church today.

Agree again!

I don't attack the person

Whoops . . . that's not true. One sentence after this you called me a liar. That's about as personal an attack as one can get. And you said that you don't call people names. Hmmm . . . looks like you made to look in the mirror on that lying thing .

You are hardly qualified to tell me that I am not being loving.

I thought you didn't attack the person, but the doctrine. This sounds like yet another personal attack. Hmmm....

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

I have no idea why the mod's are allowing you to continue posting.

Maybe they like having someone on the board that takes a stand for what Scripture says and tries to speak against the false doctrine that we need anything other than believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

 

[Revmitchell]

Maybe they like having someone on the board that takes a stand for what Scripture says and tries to speak against the false doctrine that we need anything other than believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

Assuming you are right what do we do with all the new testament passages that speak of repentence?

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

Assuming you are right what do we do with all the new testament passages that speak of repentence?

We understand them in the context they were given in.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God is not a respector of persons. He is not going to tell one person to believe only and another to believe and confess.

He is not going to tell some they can escape perishing by just believing and others they must repent.

Jesus told many to repent or perish. Luke 13

The rich man in hell wanted his brothers to repent lest they end up where he was. Luke 16

The Disciples went out and commanded people to repent. Mark 6

Peter told many to repent. Acts 2; Acts 3

Paul told men it is important to repent. Acts 17; Act 26

The list goes on and on. The Word of God commands repentance or the penalty is to perish.

But HWIT seems to know more than God.

Yea, hath God said...?

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

Yea, hath God said...?

So I guess it wasn't "God" who "said" "BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED".

Who exactly was that then standingfirm if it wasn't God might I ask?

Yea, hath God said . . .?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So you must not believe it was Jesus who said Except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish?

It was not the Holy Spirit that had Paul, Peter and all the Disciples preach repentance toward God?

 

[gb93433]

Not necessarily, gb. One can say Jesus is their Lord and not have Him as Lord.

Matthew 7 clearly shows some will call Him their Lord and He never knew them.

Read the context of that precedes Mt. 7:21-23. We are not talking about false prophets but rather salvation, grace, and discipleship.

Mt. 7:15-20, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits."

In the historical context of scripture one could have lost their life because of naming Jesus as Lord. When one named Jesus as Lord that meant they renounced the emperor as lord and that meant the emperor could have had that person executed.

There is a difference between making a claim and simply saying the words.

2 Cor 4:5, "For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.'

Ro 10:8-10, "But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

 

[gb93433]

So you must not believe it was Jesus who said Except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish?

It was not the Holy Spirit that had Paul, Peter and all the Disciples preach repentance toward God?

2 Cor 4:5, "For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.'

Preaching Christ takes care of all that is needed.

We are commanded to focus on Christ not repentance. John preached repentance.

Mk. 1:3-5, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, `Make ready the way of the Lord, Make His paths straight.' " John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins."

Preaching repentance focuses on sin and not Christ. It focuses on the purpsoe of the law. Repentance from dead works toward God and faith in Christ points to Christ not the law. Our faith is to be in Christ not an escape from the law.

Acts 20:20-22, "how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[David Lamb]

Not necessarily, gb. One can say Jesus is their Lord and not have Him as Lord.

Matthew 7 clearly shows some will call Him their Lord and He never knew them.

True, but in that case, can they really be said to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Paul told the gaoler that he had to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, not merely to say that he believed on Him.

I think there is far more involved in "believing on the Lord Jesus Christ" than some on this thread (not you, SFIC ) seem to be insisting.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In Matthew 4, Mark 1, and Luke 13 Jesus preached repentance.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[gb93433]

In Matthew 4, Mark 1, and Luke 13 Jesus preached repentance.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus also preached sell all you have. You cannot prooftext and declare that is the entirety of what the Bible teaches. All passages have a greater context. Yes repentance was preached but nothing is taught that stops there. John is a good example of just preaching repentance and the people repented of their sins. That is the same thing that will happen if people only respond to repentance. I find that the gospel reaches people. If one asks people how they came to Christ there is are as many different testimonies as there are people. Preaching repentance only with no direction toward Christ can lead to humanism and self help theology. Repentance is only one part of what the Bible teaches. People can know they need to change the direction of their life and openly make that declaration. That is repentance pointed at self. Repentance is only one part of pointing a person to Christ. When they receive Christ that is the start of their new life in Christ. Once that same person is mature enough they begin to share their faith and make disciples. I believe the reason why there is too often such a focus on repentance and preaching certain things is because there are so few making disciples. I will never forget the time I visited a certain church and I did not get out of the building without someone talking to me about my relationship with God. That church was heavily involved in personal discipleship.

Mk. 10:17-22, "As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. "You know the commandments, `Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.' "And he said to Him, "Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up." Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property."

Mk. 1:4-5, "John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins."

 

[David Lamb]

Jesus also preached sell all you have. You cannot prooftext and declare that is the entirety of what the Bible teaches. All passages have a greater context. Yes repentance was preached but nothing is taught that stops there.

I am sure he will answer for himself, but where did SFIC advocate preaching only repentance? I know he is prolific in his posts - perhaps I missed that one.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I am sure he will answer for himself, but where did SFIC advocate preaching only repentance? I know he is prolific in his posts - perhaps I missed that one.

I haven't. If gb had read all my posts on this board, he would see I preach repentance, belief, and confession... all Bible doctrines that tie into Salvation.

He must have missed the verse I posted out of Mark 1 that says Jesus preached that people must repent and believe the gospel. Powerful verse.

 

[Revmitchell]

We understand them in the context they were given in.

And which context is that?

 

[HisWordIsTruth]

And which context is that?

Revmitchell that is a GREAT question. However I really don't think you are asking with a genuine desire to know. Could be wrong, but it seems pretty apparant as to what your agenda is.

However let me ask you a question. Has there ever been a moment in human history where the good news of everlasting life was NOT available to anyone who would believe (or in your case believe and repent and confess and whatever else you feel you need to add to the equation)?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Is it just me, or does anyone else notice HisWordIsTruth cannot answer questions he is asked?

 

[Revmitchell]

Revmitchell that is a GREAT question. However I really don't think you are asking with a genuine desire to know. Could be wrong, but it seems pretty apparant as to what your agenda is.

What agenda is that? And why should any agenda prohibit you from answering that?

However let me ask you a question. Has there ever been a moment in human history where the good news of everlasting life was NOT available to anyone who would believe (or in your case believe and repent and confess and whatever else you feel you need to add to the equation)?

No.

 

[gb93433]

I haven't. If gb had read all my posts on this board, he would see I preach repentance, belief, and confession... all Bible doctrines that tie into Salvation.

He must have missed the verse I posted out of Mark 1 that says Jesus preached that people must repent and believe the gospel. Powerful verse.

Great! I am glad we are in agreement.