Grade Level

[Trotter]

Anyone who "grew up" on the KJV will say that it is easy to read and understand. it works like speaking english... I was born into it and have spoke it all my life, so it is easy to me; someone fresh off the boat from across the waters would find it very different.

I didn't grow up on the KJV. It was my first bible, but I couldn't readily understand it. I still use it on occasion, but I now use other translations to read and study.

As for the grade level, I have always been way up there as far as reading goes. I was reading well into the doctorate range in high school. I can attest that the KJV is nowhere near elementary or middle school level, and is pretty close to going into college level.

 

[Tater77]

I grew up with the KJV. I can read it but I still have to stop every little bit just to figure out exactly what is being said. Reading without understanding is useless.

BTW, my English skills are college level, having completed Comp 101 and 102 and I am familiar with all sorts of classic literature and Shakespeare.

I personally know several people who struggle with the KJV.

 

[Palatka51]

What grade level do you think the King James Version was written on?

Salty

ps, I know they didnt have our current grade levels back in 1611, but I'm talking about todays school grades

Dropping out of school before the third grade, my Great Uncle taught himself how to read by the KJV. My Aunt would read the scripture then he would preach. After awhile he was able to read it for himself. That, my friends, is what I'd call a great home based education. :thumbs:

My Uncle passed away, January 2000. My Aunt is on her last days and needs our prayers. They were not the best educated people to Pastor a Church but they did love the Lord. :thumbs: I couldn't have any more profound respect for any man, even if he had the highest degrees from any of the most respected universities. :godisgood:

I voted for a level of seventh grade.

 

[Askjo]

Dropping out of school before the third grade, my Great Uncle taught himself how to read by the KJV. My Aunt would read the scripture then he would preach. After awhile he was able to read it for himself. That, my friends, is what I'd call a great home based education. :thumbs:

My Uncle passed away, January 2000. My Aunt is on her last days and needs our prayers. They were not the best educated people to Pastor a Church but they did love the Lord. :thumbs: I couldn't have any more profound respect for any man, even if he had the highest degrees from any of the most respected universities. :godisgood:

I voted for a level of seventh grade.

Palatka51, Preach it !! Amen !!

 

[Salty]

Reading without understanding is useless....

Tater, there you go again, confusing people with the facts!

 

[Mexdeaf]

Ask anyone on the street for a definition of the word "quick"- then go look at Acts 10:42 and see if they would understand it properly.

KJV WAS written on a fifth grade level- back in 1611.

Today it is a foreign language to most college-educated people.

 

[Baptist4life]

Today it is a foreign language to most college-educated people.

Doesn't say much for our colleges then, does it.:thumbs:

 

[annsni]

Doesn't say much for our colleges then, does it.:thumbs:

Why? Colleges should teach outdated language? How about just teaching useful language?

 

[Baptist4life]

Why? Colleges should teach outdated language? How about just teaching useful language?

ANYBODY with a "lick of sense" can read and understand the KJV. If you CAN'T, then I believe you have an IQ problem. Did you ever look at a college textbook in the sciences, calculus, chemistry or lab? If they can read and understand those, then the KJV should be like reading a first grade primer!



Read whatever version you like, for whatever reason, but please, quit talking about the KJV being "too hard to understand".

 

[Salty]

... Read whatever version you like, for whatever reason, but please, quit talking about the KJV being "too hard to understand".

How many times has a pastor said "What this verse means"... "in the orginal lanuage"... Acts 10:42* uses the word 'Quick', but ...

Salty

* Mexdeaf, I also was wondering why no one has answerd your (# 46) post yet

 

[EdSutton]

Doesn't say much for our colleges then, does it.:thumbs:

Hey!! Nice shot!! :thumbs:

BUT -

What does your little dig have to do with anything, here?

Why should an student pursuing a major in such varied fields as Engineering, Computers, Industrial Arts, Architecture, Apiculture (that's the study of Bee-keeping for some who might not know), Law Enforcement, Fire Safety, Pre-Med, Chemistry, Mathematics, Military Science, Agriculture (my own area of employment), or Nursing (the field of my bride) be expected to be a master of Jacobean English?

Frankly, I really don't care whether or not my Physician or my Nurse has a good command of Elizabethan or Jacobean English. I do care if they can read "modern English" well enough to know about and provide the best medical care I can get.

A History or Foreign Language major, maybe so.

An English or Bible major, probably.

But just as all these above are not Language majors, neither should they even be expected to have a field of concentration in a generally unused Language, such as Latin for an Ag major, or Jacobean English for a Nursing major.

That very idea is absurd, on the face.

However, all the above should be able to have good command and use the English language as spoken today in a proper manner, IMO. I believe that is a definite necessity, in an English speaking environment, and if one wants to comment on a (perceived) weakness in that area, then go for it!

But these two things are different, hence not the same, by any means.

FTR, all the above majors can be found to be available at some, although not all, of the dozen, or so, Colleges and/or Universities located (or having a satellite location) within an hour's drive of my own home.

Ed

 

[annsni]

ANYBODY with a "lick of sense" can read and understand the KJV. If you CAN'T, then I believe you have an IQ problem. Did you ever look at a college textbook in the sciences, calculus, chemistry or lab? If they can read and understand those, then the KJV should be like reading a first grade primer!

Wow - nice insult. One must be trained to understand those textbooks. I can look at a calculus book and not understand it at all. I cannot understand chem anymore nor many other things I once learned in college (especially the stupid programming stuff).

Can you read a medical book and understand it? Can you read a book on rebuilding an engine and understand it? Can you read a book about advanced programming languages and understand it? Can you read any publication that the US Government puts out and understand it (yeah - we're doing taxes and figuring out how to file for our working daughters - LOL)? Just because one cannot understand language that they are not exposed to does not mean they have an IQ problem. That is insulting. We have Chinese students coming to our church who are graduate students at Polytechnic Institute in Brooklyn NY. These students have very high IQs and are brilliant (all are engineering students - from medical engineering to computer engineering) yet the KJV is beyond them. Our OWN language is beyond them even though they speak the English language very very well. It is not IQ but what is commonly known. As someone posted, "quick" does not mean the same thing in the KJV as it does in our language. "Gay" no longer means the same thing. Does that mean someone who doesn't understand it is stupid? No - and that is a great insult.

Read whatever version you like, for whatever reason, but please, quit talking about the KJV being "too hard to understand".

Why, thank you for your permission to read whatever version Bible I want to read. I feel so much better now. :BangHead:

 

[AntennaFarmer]

Wow! Some folks have a pretty narrow view of education. I studied Shakespeare in high school. I recall that my little brother also studied Chaucer there (I didn't study any Chaucer until college).

I studied Engineering at a well known public institution where coursework was required in History, English and other such subjects. I doubt that I could have avoided them had I wished to. So, in the normal course of my studies I was exposed to what some of you consider "old English".

If you think that "broadening the mind" isn't important for "Engineering, Computers, Industrial Arts, Architecture, Apiculture, Law Enforcement, Fire Safety, Pre-Med, Chemistry, Mathematics, Military Science, Agriculture or Nursing" then you need to go argue with some educators. Maybe you could get them to knock off a few years of coursework. Then we could all get to chopping wood at an earlier age.

 

[AntennaFarmer]

"Our OWN language is beyond them even though they speak the English language very very well."

I don't understand that statement

A.F.

 

[AntennaFarmer]

"As someone posted, "quick" does not mean the same thing in the KJV as it does in our language."

It is still understood. Do you remember a movie entitled "The Quick and the Dead?" (phrase from 1 Peter 4:5?)

From Merriam-Webster online Dictionary:
"Quick", adj. 1: not dead : living , alive

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/

That is definition #1. Now, just how did the KJV use the word? How do you use it?




""Gay" no longer means the same thing."

Check your dictionary. They only added a definition.

 

[Baptist4life]

My whole point was, if you are intelligent enough to go to college, I would think you would have enough common sense to be able to read a KJV Bible! I've put 6 kids through college, most of them with "honors" diplomas. They are very intelligent. I've "hung around" a lot of college kids for quite a few years. I've not met ANY who could not read and understand a KJV Bible. You think they don't have to stop and look up a few words in their textbooks at times? I can assure you they do...it's called "learning". Should we throw out those textbooks because the average student may need to look up a word now and then? Seems like that is the main argument against the KJV. I don't get it.

 

[Baptist4life]

Why, thank you for your permission to read whatever version Bible I want to read. I feel so much better now. :BangHead:

Why did you take such offense at my post? It was not meant to be an insult at all. Just a statement. And I wasn't giving anyone "permission" to read a Bible version, I was stating that I really don't mind what version you read. My post wasn't about being KJVO.

 

[Trotter]

My whole point was, if you are intelligent enough to go to college, I would think you would have enough common sense to be able to read a KJV Bible!

Not hardly. The entire sentence structure int he KJV can be confusing. This is mainly because it tries to carry a stricter word-for-word translation, but it is also because of the age of the language used. I know many college graduates who cannot read and understand from a KJV. I also know some people who have much more in common with Forest Gump the Albert Einstein, but can read and understand the KJV just fine.

What's the difference? The second group have read and used the KJV all their life and so are familiar with it, the words used, and how it flows. They were completely lost with it when they started out, but people came alongside and explained things.

No one should have to rely on other people or other books to be able to read God's word with clarity and understanding! The New Testemant was written in the comon language of the people of that day. Why shouldn't a translation be done in the same way? As long as the translation remains true to God's words, there is not a problem with that. If someone does have a problem with that, they are worshipping the printed page and not the Author of that page.

 

[EdSutton]

Wow! Some folks have a pretty narrow view of education. I studied Shakespeare in high school. I recall that my little brother also studied Chaucer there (I didn't study any Chaucer until college).

I studied Engineering at a well known public institution where coursework was required in History, English and other such subjects. I doubt that I could have avoided them had I wished to. So, in the normal course of my studies I was exposed to what some of you consider "old English".

If you think that "broadening the mind" isn't important for "Engineering, Computers, Industrial Arts, Architecture, Apiculture, Law Enforcement, Fire Safety, Pre-Med, Chemistry, Mathematics, Military Science, Agriculture or Nursing" then you need to go argue with some educators. Maybe you could get them to knock off a few years of coursework. Then we could all get to chopping wood at an earlier age.

I don't believe I ever said (or implied) anything against ""broadening the mind"" in my post. And, to my knowledge, every reputable institution requires a number of hours in requirements in general course work. In addition, every institution I am aware of, actually 'requires' a number of "electives" as well, which I would assume, can take any form, or be in any field, depending on one's choices.

I did ask why one should reasonably "be expected to become a 'master of Jacobean English' " and why should one "be expected to have a field of concentration (or in other words, a 'Minor') in a generally unused language" if you actually read the post.

It appears to me, that your ideas amount to taking this choice away from one, and effectively making this 'exposure' an additional "requirement" by contrast, for there is a great deal of difference between "being exposed" to "old English" (BTW, the English Bible from the days of Tyndale forward is properly described as "Modern English" and not "Ye Olde Engliʃhe" as the spelling and usages of the !6th and 17th Centuries would have been, and are an early form of Modern English, even though this may appear to resemble little of the vernacular of today.) and becoming "a master of Jacobean English," as was the writing and speaking norm of that time.

Let's just not confute someone's own personal preferences with reality, on the subject.

And please don't attempt, by implication, to put words "in my mouth" that I did not say, even though anyone may feel completely free to disagree with anything I did actually say.

Ed

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The KJV was not written on any grade level because there were no grade levels in England in 1611.