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Greek/Hebrew Requirement
- Thread starter Dr. Bob
- Start date
The reason why a number of seminaries went to a no language requirement is bacause they have had students who have taken the language courses many times and have an extremely difficult time even after repeating the language courses many times. All too often the M.Div. is viewed as the license to preach rather than an opportunity to learn and grow.
Also there are a number of churches that do not want a wel educate preacher because they want to train him the way they want and keep him under their thumb.
Often there are two schools of thought. One is you are called we will help you get through. The other is you are called we will help you be well prepared.
Also there are a number of churches that do not want a wel educate preacher because they want to train him the way they want and keep him under their thumb.
Often there are two schools of thought. One is you are called we will help you get through. The other is you are called we will help you be well prepared.
Not everyone who is at seminary should be there. Not everyone who is there is called. Not everyone who is called is called to be a pastor or teacher. There are some cases where people might not need much greek. However, as I see it, I think everyone should at least have to take one semester of Greek and Hebrew. You're at a seminary for crying out loud. It is a place to go and become better educated in the study of God.
It is possible and acceptable to be a pastor without an M. Div. I've sat under some Godly men who don't have one. But by going to seminary, you are expressing your desire to grow in understanding, and if you are going to grow in udnerstanding of God, why not do it in the original languages which are much better than English
I don't know how many hours that entails (12 might be enough, as it appears it was a good amount for Todd) but at least take some.
It is possible and acceptable to be a pastor without an M. Div. I've sat under some Godly men who don't have one. But by going to seminary, you are expressing your desire to grow in understanding, and if you are going to grow in udnerstanding of God, why not do it in the original languages which are much better than English
I don't know how many hours that entails (12 might be enough, as it appears it was a good amount for Todd) but at least take some.
"IF you do take 6 credits of Greek (a way-to-brief intro that hardly gets feet wet) and 6 credits of Hebrew, your M.Div dilpoma has a seal that says "with biblical languages."
Far short of what I was required to take.
I had to have two years of language and chose to take more.
Rufus
Far short of what I was required to take.
I had to have two years of language and chose to take more.
Rufus
I'm with you Squire....M.Div...no languages 
I cannot imagine a respectable seminary offering that degree without at least 24 hours of instruction in the biblical languages. By the time I finished college and seminary I had 42 semester hours of Greek and 9 of Hebrew.
I am still using that training, in fact I worked on translation and diagraming in Romans 1 this morning.
I cannot imagine a respectable seminary offering that degree without at least 24 hours of instruction in the biblical languages. By the time I finished college and seminary I had 42 semester hours of Greek and 9 of Hebrew.
I am still using that training, in fact I worked on translation and diagraming in Romans 1 this morning.
All about Grace
New Member
Seminary students should get adequate training in biblical languages. Most legitimate seminaries require it. What most seminaries do not require that is equally important and relevant is solid leadership and philosophy of ministry courses.
What I have learned about effective leadership and methodology I have learned on my own and not during the 11 years of classes in which I earned 2 Masters and a PhD.
What I have learned about effective leadership and methodology I have learned on my own and not during the 11 years of classes in which I earned 2 Masters and a PhD.
It's not so much how many hours you have had of instruction but how many hours you spent learning and what you learned. Some seminaries are like glorified high schools and others are quite rigorous. That can be in the same seminary too. When I took Greek I studied 15 to 20 hours each week for a three hour class. We had students coming from other schols who were way behind where we were. I knew one of the students who had two years at another Baptist university and he did not have as much as we did at the end of one year. I have seen many who have a Ph.D. who have not had as much as we did at the end of two years and they have a doctorate. It depends on the professor you had. At SWBTS there were those who didn't have as much at the end of two years as others did at the end of one. I had some third years courses. When I talk with others often they ask me where I got my Ph.D. from. I don't have a Ph.D. in theology. I only have a M.Div. On the first day the professor told us that at the end of two years we would be able to read 75 percent of the NT without any helps. At the end of two years he was right. A friend of mine went to another seminary and he went through in three years what we went through in two.
VERY true. In the "good old days" there was a consistency of teacher/text and curriculum in almost all the historic ifb schools.
I taught in a college using a newer system. While I visited with the young men and quized them on what they were learning, I had a hard time comparing to my days. But did know without a doubt that after two full years of college Greek, they did NOT have the grasp on the language we did.
Why, back in MY day . . .
I taught in a college using a newer system. While I visited with the young men and quized them on what they were learning, I had a hard time comparing to my days. But did know without a doubt that after two full years of college Greek, they did NOT have the grasp on the language we did.
Why, back in MY day . . .
I am brand new to this Baptist Board and I am glad to be a part. When I went to SWBTS in Ft. Worth (I started in 1982 and graudated in 1985) and received my M. Div. Degree, I had NO CHOICE! If you were a M.Div. student, you had to take Hebrew and Greek. I was a Biology and Chemistry major at Texas Tech Un.,so I had no Greek or Hebrew when I arrived on the campus of the world's largest seminary. And boy-O-boy did it ever show! I was a lost goose looking for a way to survive!
I took 9 hours of Intro Greek and then 6 more hours of NT Greek. I also had 6 hours of Hebrew. My M.Div. degree wound up having 97 hours. Several years after I graduated, I heard that SWBTS had a new M.Div. Degree - an "M.Div. with NO BIBLICAL LANGUAGES!" I was shocked and in a total state of biblical disbelief! I could not believe it! No Languages in a M.Div. Degree!?! LOL.
I think that if a person is going to step into the pulpit and preach the WORD of GOD, they need to have some knowledge of the original Bible languages, and should have spent some time studying the texts from that perspective -- whether it be in Seminary or at home with self-study. Maybe I am wrong, but that is my belief.
I had to work my tail off to learn the languages, and I think that every M.Div. student should have to do the same!
I cannot imagine how much EASIER my M.Div. work would have been had it not been for the hard language work. But, looking back on it, it was worth it and I am glad I took the courses.What do others of you think?
BLT
koreahog2005
New Member
I agree. I was at SWBTS 1980-1983.
Plain Old Bill
New Member
If someone wanted to teach thierself Greek and Hebrew, what would be the best books to buy?
Charles Meadows
New Member
Interesting topic...
As far as the best books for Greek. Mounce is definitely the way to go for the beginner. After that there are several possibilities. The student should be aware that not all books say the same thing! Nowadays in biblical Greek there has been a change of thinking about verbal time and aspect. Authors like Stanley Porter, K. L. McKay, and (somewhat) Buist Fanning take a stance on verb tenses that is NOT in agreement with the old tense theories espoused by Dana/Mantey, Robertson, Moulton/Turner etc.
In Hebrew the best intro book (I think) is Pratico/Van Pelt. The best second year book by far is Waltke. He interects much more with formal linguistic theory than does Weingreen, Gesenius, or even Jouon. Van der Merwe is also good.
As far as the best books for Greek. Mounce is definitely the way to go for the beginner. After that there are several possibilities. The student should be aware that not all books say the same thing! Nowadays in biblical Greek there has been a change of thinking about verbal time and aspect. Authors like Stanley Porter, K. L. McKay, and (somewhat) Buist Fanning take a stance on verb tenses that is NOT in agreement with the old tense theories espoused by Dana/Mantey, Robertson, Moulton/Turner etc.
In Hebrew the best intro book (I think) is Pratico/Van Pelt. The best second year book by far is Waltke. He interects much more with formal linguistic theory than does Weingreen, Gesenius, or even Jouon. Van der Merwe is also good.
Charles Meadows
New Member
Another worth mentioning!
Knowledge of languages can definitely be a double edged sowrd!!!!!
No one would argue that a little understanding of the mechanics of the actual biblical languages certainly can serve to increase one's knowledge of the biblical passages.
But a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!
Consider the average churchman who reads in an intro grammar that the perfect tense signifies a past action with present time consequences (This is a gross oversimplification that in many cases doesn't hold up). This leads to poor exegesis. Or consider the Gospel of John in which Jesus asks Peter three times if he loves Him. Does the fact that different words are used many anything other than stylistic variation?
D.A. Carsons "Exegetical Fallacies" is an excellent book about some of the problems which can occur here!!
Knowledge of languages can definitely be a double edged sowrd!!!!!
No one would argue that a little understanding of the mechanics of the actual biblical languages certainly can serve to increase one's knowledge of the biblical passages.
But a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!
Consider the average churchman who reads in an intro grammar that the perfect tense signifies a past action with present time consequences (This is a gross oversimplification that in many cases doesn't hold up). This leads to poor exegesis. Or consider the Gospel of John in which Jesus asks Peter three times if he loves Him. Does the fact that different words are used many anything other than stylistic variation?
D.A. Carsons "Exegetical Fallacies" is an excellent book about some of the problems which can occur here!!
It's like the kid who gets into his parents car in the garage and decides to turn on the engine and then put it in gear not knowing there is a brake. Everything he did destroyed the building. Anybody can shoot another in less than a second. But it takes a skilled doctor to save a person once they have been shot.
The Seminary I attend (GGBTS) requires students in the MDiv to have 6 hours in either Greek or Hebrew and 3 hours in the other.
I intend on taking as much Hebrew and Greek as I can get in my electives. I am a diploma student given my call was later in life, age 43, and I never attended college. I am not required in the diploma degree to have any languages. But I have a thirst in this area of languages, especially the Hebrew.
For those of you who do not know what a diploma degree is, mine being the diploma of theology, it is the same as the MDiv minus the languages. We are graded the same etc ... I will be attending Liberty in Virginia (via long distance) to start on my undergraduate degree.
Back to what I was saying ...
I just finished my first semester in an intro class to Old Testament Hebrew. Wow. What an appetite wetter that was. Next semester I am taking Hebrew exegisis in the book of Exodus (the maturing of Moses passages).
After we first started translating and I would compare my translation to the NIV, RSV , NASB and so forth, NASB being my favorite, and how surprised I was at the English translation versus what I had come up with. It seems our Bibles have left things out or the intensity of things out, not that I am a scholar mind you, not yet, haha ... I can see where a person who is going to teach SCripture in any form should be able to research the Scripture they teach to its fullest degree. We must not teach what is not correct must we?
I do agree with many of your statements.
I do believe that students at seminary should be required to take at least an intro course in both lanquages.
Regardless of what their degree is in.
GGBTS deals more it seems with those called to missions than the pastorate ... I myself am going to be a hospice chaplain.
One gentleman replied that there are many in seminary who are "not called". My brother, we must not pretend to know God's mind must we? Who are we to know what a person or persons is called to?
I must close with one last thought here. Even though, through all the different translations of God's word, many mistakes have been made, it is to God's glory that people still come to accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour and sometimes it has been something faulted that has brought them to Christ.
We can not forget that God uses all things and all things are used to glorify God ..
Bye for now ...
In His Service
Charlene
<><
I intend on taking as much Hebrew and Greek as I can get in my electives. I am a diploma student given my call was later in life, age 43, and I never attended college. I am not required in the diploma degree to have any languages. But I have a thirst in this area of languages, especially the Hebrew.
For those of you who do not know what a diploma degree is, mine being the diploma of theology, it is the same as the MDiv minus the languages. We are graded the same etc ... I will be attending Liberty in Virginia (via long distance) to start on my undergraduate degree.
Back to what I was saying ...
I just finished my first semester in an intro class to Old Testament Hebrew. Wow. What an appetite wetter that was. Next semester I am taking Hebrew exegisis in the book of Exodus (the maturing of Moses passages).
After we first started translating and I would compare my translation to the NIV, RSV , NASB and so forth, NASB being my favorite, and how surprised I was at the English translation versus what I had come up with. It seems our Bibles have left things out or the intensity of things out, not that I am a scholar mind you, not yet, haha ... I can see where a person who is going to teach SCripture in any form should be able to research the Scripture they teach to its fullest degree. We must not teach what is not correct must we?
I do agree with many of your statements.
I do believe that students at seminary should be required to take at least an intro course in both lanquages.
Regardless of what their degree is in.
GGBTS deals more it seems with those called to missions than the pastorate ... I myself am going to be a hospice chaplain.
One gentleman replied that there are many in seminary who are "not called". My brother, we must not pretend to know God's mind must we? Who are we to know what a person or persons is called to?
I must close with one last thought here. Even though, through all the different translations of God's word, many mistakes have been made, it is to God's glory that people still come to accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour and sometimes it has been something faulted that has brought them to Christ.
We can not forget that God uses all things and all things are used to glorify God ..
Bye for now ...
In His Service
Charlene
<><
By the time a person gets a B.A. he will have spent 16 years studying English. Are you saying that six hours of Greek is enough to be prepared for the rest of your life doing God's work? I can tell you that the vast majority of pastors seldom if ever pick up a Greek NT after they leave seminary. But those who have been well prepared use it.
I would contend the reason you do not use you Hebrew text is because you were not prepared well enough to use it comfortably. If you had a lot more Hebrew you would use it.
You should be able read John 1 without any helps and read from it when you preach.
If you have not had discourse analysis then you have had not much more than word recognition and basic grammar. By the time I had three semesters I had completed a basic introduction to discourse analysis, and textual; criticism. By the end of three semesters you should be able to identify the form and function of sentences and subordinate clauses. You should know about literary genre. You should also know things like Phil 1:3-11 is a prayer and not a promise like so many interpret it.
Tools are like anything else, the more you know how to use them the more you will use them.
How long did Jesus prepare for ministry? He already knew the language too. What should that tell us?