Guilt Trips

[HAMel]

I'm heading to town with the radio on listening to my local Christian Station and this preacher asked the question....

Are you just religious with Jesus or are you a serious believer?
Do you really hear God when He speaks to you or do you miss what He's saying?

Another preacher comes on asking...
Are you really saved or do you just think you're saved?
Were you really baptized in water or did you just go for a swim?

Here's comes another one...
Do you truly trust in the Lord or are you trusting in yourself?

Next one...
Do you love your neighbor as yourself or are you a self-centered Christian?

followed with...
Do you enjoy attending church or is your attendance a burden and you can't wait for it to end?

Then, the follow up message(s) to each and every possible scenario that could possibly cause any doubt..., does. Why is this?

If you listen to the average "younger" preacher of today it's all about doubt and/or guilt. No matter what you're doing or what you think it's necessary to constantly doubt yourself.

As for me, I asked the Lord to save me back in 1972. End of subject. Do I believe that He did. Yes, I do because He said He would. So why all the guilt trips and this constant attempt at causing doubt?

...are our pulpits filled with shallow men? Unable or unwilling to preach the Gospel? If so it's no wonder attendance lags.

 

[The Biblicist]

I'm heading to town with the radio on listening to my local Christian Station and this preacher asked the question....

Are you just religious with Jesus or are you a serious believer?
Do you really hear God when He speaks to you or do you miss what He's saying?

Another preacher comes on asking...
Are you really saved or do you just think you're saved?
Were you really baptized in water or did you just go for a swim?

Here's comes another one...
Do you truly trust in the Lord or are you trusting in yourself?

Next one...
Do you love your neighbor as yourself or are you a self-centered Christian?

followed with...
Do you enjoy attending church or is your attendance a burden and you can't wait for it to end?

Then, the follow up message(s) to each and every possible scenario that could possibly cause any doubt..., does. Why is this?

If you listen to the average "younger" preacher of today it's all about doubt and/or guilt. No matter what you're doing or what you think it's necessary to constantly doubt yourself.

As for me, I asked the Lord to save me back in 1972. End of subject. Do I believe that He did. Yes, I do because He said He would. So why all the guilt trips and this constant attempt at causing doubt?

...are our pulpits filled with shallow men? Unable or unwilling to preach the Gospel? If so it's no wonder attendance lags.

Because FALSE PROFESSIONS due to ignorance, misinformation, false doctrine are COMMON and this is seen in the parable of the TARES.

This is why there is no much division, false doctrine, false denominations within the professing realm of Christendom. These are very good questions.

If you are trusting you are saved because of some mechanical recipe you followed yesterday or a hundred years ago, you are probably no more saved than the computer you are using.

A real saved person is a CHANGED person as they are a NEW CREATION. A real saved person knows the "truth of the gospel" and that is part of his salvation experience. A real saved person is CHASTENED when they sin or they are not a saved person regardless of their profession.

The New Testament repeatedly challenges those who make professions of salvation to

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

or to

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Because there are many FALSE "brethren" so-called.

 

[HAMel]

It would seem to me that after asking the Lord to save me, I was changed and as such, automatically became a new creation. This "New Creation" is an aspect I certainly could not do on my own..., but I do understand the thought here.

As for those who are playing a role and following the script it would seem to me that only the Lord could touch their hearts..., vice a Guilt Trip. Guilt trips cause many to doubt and that, a sin?

 

[The Biblicist]

it would seem to me that only the Lord could touch their hearts..., vice a Guilt Trip. Guilt trips cause many to doubt and that, a sin?

Are you then charging Jesus and Paul with using guilt trips or don't you believe the following words are scriptural?

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

or to

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[Getting it Right]

We hear demands daily on so-called Christian TV for Christians to do "thus and so" because of some new revelation the preacher has. Their "preaching" becomes a lecture which one must tune in to.

I've got news for them: The Bible is complete. It is all there.

:godisgood:

 

[BlueMoon]

Because FALSE PROFESSIONS due to ignorance, misinformation, false doctrine are COMMON and this is seen in the parable of the TARES.

This is why there is no much division, false doctrine, false denominations within the professing realm of Christendom. These are very good questions.

If you are trusting you are saved because of some mechanical recipe you followed yesterday or a hundred years ago, you are probably no more saved than the computer you are using.

A real saved person is a CHANGED person as they are a NEW CREATION. A real saved person knows the "truth of the gospel" and that is part of his salvation experience. A real saved person is CHASTENED when they sin or they are not a saved person regardless of their profession.

The New Testament repeatedly challenges those who make professions of salvation to

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

or to

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Because there are many FALSE "brethren" so-called.

I agree. These are excellent questions. The same verse entered my mind - "Examine yourselves..."

 

[HAMel]

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

or to

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Yes indeed. Excellent question..., er, uh, Sound Advice.

So..., why not preach on the scripture highlighted above so as to encourage folks to ensure their salvation absent ALL the guilt trips? It's very good advice and those who have fallen victim to the Confidence Men (False Religions) should heed the advice of scripture.

...as in checking your oil level before starting a long trip. Good advice. No lecture; no guilt trip. Check the oil level!






We hear demands daily on so-called Christian TV for Christians to do "thus and so" because of some new revelation the preacher has. Their "preaching" becomes a lecture which one must tune in to.

I've got news for them: The Bible is complete. It is all there.

Getting it Right, you got it Right!!! Enough of the lectures already.

 

[nodak]

Sadly there is also another seamier side to this guilt trip thing.

Bear in mind there are legitimate reasons to examine yourself. But doesn't that happen when one is truly saved? Why keep checking for belly button lint for the next 60 years?

So here is the seamier side we witnessed. (We've moved 14 times in our marriage, so yes, we've been in a bunch of churches.) We were part of a wonderful SBC church. The new preacher it called was a 5 point Lordship Salvation man, and seemed bent on convincing everyone that was a member that they had experienced a "false conversion." Many folks believed him and were redunked.

The problem? See, the guy did not want to go out and actually win folks to Christ. He didn't want to preach evangelistically, or go out on visitation, or do ANYTHING to bring in new members. But when it came time for the state convention meeting he really puffed up his report of how many were baptized. Made it sound like a church of about 75, in baptizing about 60, was a real go getter church. Someone noticed total membership had not risen, but he blew that off. The next year the church was really noticeably smaller, but still baptizing large numbers. Get the picture? 3rd time under for many.

Finally they sent him packing, got in a man who preached a traditionalist message, was a go getter visiting in the community, being part of the community, and winning people to Christ. We were back in that community last summer on vacation and it looks like the church is still growing.

I used to give the rebaptizing dude grace, figuring maybe he really believed that unless you agreed with him (and John MacArthur) 100% you couldn't really be saved. Thing was, that was the one place we lived a long time, over a dozen years, and I knew those people had always really walked the walk, not just talked the talk. And many of those people, after he left, seemed to come out from under some sort of cloud and admit they knew they had been saved long before he came.

I've come to suspect he had a captive audience, and set out to use them to puff up his numbers. Sad but possibly true.

Either way, I don't buy into guilt trips. I happened to have been there when Jesus saved my sorry soul, and know for a fact it happened. I don't trust my lint picking, my emotions, or think a rote sinner's prayer saved me. I trust God. I trust Jesus. He told me "whosoever cometh to Him He would in nowise cast out."

You want to doubt my salvation, you take it up with Jesus. I've got His word on it, even if I don't buy your book, contribute to your cause, or act as your unpaid employee, or join your church.

 

[HAMel]

Thank you, nodak. You hit the nail on the head. ...no need for all the smoke and mirrors.

I think of that one thief on the cross that fateful day. He admitted he was a sinner; earning his just rewards; and asked Jesus to "remember" him. Jesus did.

This thief obviously didn't jump through any hoops that are otherwise mandated by today's churches.

I had a man tell me one time that he didn't believe in "Death Bed Confessions." Go ask that thief on the cross about his conversion at the last day of his life.

 

[Getting it Right]

Thank You, HaMel & Nodak....

 

[quantumfaith]

Sadly there is also another seamier side to this guilt trip thing.

Bear in mind there are legitimate reasons to examine yourself. But doesn't that happen when one is truly saved? Why keep checking for belly button lint for the next 60 years?

So here is the seamier side we witnessed. (We've moved 14 times in our marriage, so yes, we've been in a bunch of churches.) We were part of a wonderful SBC church. The new preacher it called was a 5 point Lordship Salvation man, and seemed bent on convincing everyone that was a member that they had experienced a "false conversion." Many folks believed him and were redunked.

The problem? See, the guy did not want to go out and actually win folks to Christ. He didn't want to preach evangelistically, or go out on visitation, or do ANYTHING to bring in new members. But when it came time for the state convention meeting he really puffed up his report of how many were baptized. Made it sound like a church of about 75, in baptizing about 60, was a real go getter church. Someone noticed total membership had not risen, but he blew that off. The next year the church was really noticeably smaller, but still baptizing large numbers. Get the picture? 3rd time under for many.

Finally they sent him packing, got in a man who preached a traditionalist message, was a go getter visiting in the community, being part of the community, and winning people to Christ. We were back in that community last summer on vacation and it looks like the church is still growing.

I used to give the rebaptizing dude grace, figuring maybe he really believed that unless you agreed with him (and John MacArthur) 100% you couldn't really be saved. Thing was, that was the one place we lived a long time, over a dozen years, and I knew those people had always really walked the walk, not just talked the talk. And many of those people, after he left, seemed to come out from under some sort of cloud and admit they knew they had been saved long before he came.

I've come to suspect he had a captive audience, and set out to use them to puff up his numbers. Sad but possibly true.

Either way, I don't buy into guilt trips. I happened to have been there when Jesus saved my sorry soul, and know for a fact it happened. I don't trust my lint picking, my emotions, or think a rote sinner's prayer saved me. I trust God. I trust Jesus. He told me "whosoever cometh to Him He would in nowise cast out."

You want to doubt my salvation, you take it up with Jesus. I've got His word on it, even if I don't buy your book, contribute to your cause, or act as your unpaid employee, or join your church.

Thanks for sharing this insight and experience.