Gun Laws and Socialized Medicine in Europe.

[FollowTheWay]

No. You might die before you get treated but there were no worries over medical bills.

And people didn't seek treatment for mundane things (they knew they wouldn't get it anyway). I have known older people to die of pneumonia that could have been prevented. But that can happen anywhere.

Two weeks ago I had a serious bout with a staph infection I picked up at the Cleveland Clinic supporting my brother's major heart operation. I spent 8 hrs in the ER before they found a bed to admit met. I had a temp of 103. I pulled up in front of the ER and when I went in they told me I couldn't leave my car there. Had to park in a lot a block away. If I'd been having a heart attack i could have died. I drove myself to the ER because I know that the "privatized EMS" here charges up to $4,000 per ambulance ride (better deal with Medicare). Doesn't this sound like great life-saving support?

 

[FollowTheWay]

A few shootings, some stabbings, but it was a safer place than many of our cities.

As far as college violence goes, we also have to keep in mind college, while free, was not a right. Most were not allowed to attend university. So there is that element that we have (those engaged in things other than academics) that seemed to be absent.

Come on. The obvious problem is we have more than one gun/citizen. That's ridiculous. America is like the wild west once again.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I suspect we think it good for America because we were founded in a freedom absent many other nations.

The percentage of people who shoot other people is very low in relation to gun ownership. The percent of people who intentionally shoot other people is even lower.

Some believe constitutional rights should be protected and criminals prosecuted (which isn't happening). I believe we are missing the problem (it is people, not guns). Look at the UK and the number of knife attacks....its just stupid. Taking away guns didn't change the people (but it did leave the innocent defenseless).

The difference between us and other industrialized countries IS guns. People have pretty much the same instincts and weaknesses everywhere. The difference is guns.

 

[JonC]

Two weeks ago I had a serious bout with a staph infection I picked up at the Cleveland Clinic supporting my brother's major heart operation. I spent 8 hrs in the ER before they found a bed to admit met. I had a temp of 103. I pulled up in front of the ER and when I went in they told me I couldn't leave my car there. Had to park in a lot a block away. If I'd been having a heart attack i could have died. I drove myself to the ER because I know that the "privatized EMS" here charges up to $4,000 per ambulance ride (better deal with Medicare). Doesn't this sound like great life-saving support?

I brought my son to the ER when he was 5 years old. He also had a temp of 103. They were not busy, but I guess they were understaffed. After an hour I went to the lady up front. She said that she didn't know what the problem was and recommended an ER 30 miles down the road. But by then his fever broke and we went home.

I think the problem is the ER gets tied up for non-emergency issues. It seems (just from conversations I've had with friends who work in that environment) that many go to the ER because they don't have insurance or they have poor insurance. The ER has to see them. Under socialized medicine they wouldn't be seen, but I'm not sure that they wouldn't still tie up the ER.

My mother-in-law would have died under socialized medicine because (per her symptoms) she wouldn't have been seen. Like I said, there are pros and cons.

 

[JonC]

Come on. The obvious problem is we have more than one gun/citizen. That's ridiculous. America is like the wild west once again.

What do you mean (more than one gun/citizen)?

Do you mean one gun per citizen (i.e., I shouldn't have a handgun, a hunting rifle, and a shotgun)?
Or more than one type of citizen that owns a gun?

 

[FollowTheWay]

Gun violence is on the rise in Britain despite the fact that it is very hard to legally obtain one. But okay, so shootings are low, but knife crime is of epic proportions and the use of acid in attacking others is also very common.

We do not think shootings are good for America (where did you get that idea?) - I do not know anyone who thinks this is a good thing, but being able to protect oneself and family with a particular firearm of your own choosing is indeed a good thing.

Homicides and domestic violence shootings/injuries are much higher in America. I know someone who is on Medicare mental disability and has had the police come to his house for physical domestic violence in Chicago who is still able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun. Do you support weak gun laws like this?

 

[JonC]

The difference between us and other industrialized countries IS guns. People have pretty much the same instincts and weaknesses everywhere. The difference is guns.

Why? There was a time when almost every male citizen carried a gun (or at least owned a gun). These problems didn't exist then. If guns are the problem then why now?

 

[Wingman68]

Gun violence is on the rise in Britain despite the fact that it is very hard to legally obtain one. But okay, so shootings are low, but knife crime is of epic proportions and the use of acid in attacking others is also very common.

We do not think shootings are good for America (where did you get that idea?) - I do not know anyone who thinks this is a good thing, but being able to protect oneself and family with a particular firearm of your own choosing is indeed a good thing.

Democrats taking the house will boost guns & ammo sales again. Won’t help Dick’s recover from shooting themselves in the foot though, too bad so sad, but like true leftists they don’t care what it does to their employees, the top dogs who make the calls never suffer. Off track a bit, but it’s just like what GM & their leftist boss just did. They can’t make electric cars desirable in a free market, but they don’t really want a free market, do they? Because the left is always there to think they’re smarter, & will tell you how to live, & what you can or cannot have.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I brought my son to the ER when he was 5 years old. He also had a temp of 103. They were not busy, but I guess they were understaffed. After an hour I went to the lady up front. She said that she didn't know what the problem was and recommended an ER 30 miles down the road. But by then his fever broke and we went home.

I think the problem is the ER gets tied up for non-emergency issues. It seems (just from conversations I've had with friends who work in that environment) that many go to the ER because they don't have insurance or they have poor insurance. The ER has to see them. Under socialized medicine they wouldn't be seen, but I'm not sure that they wouldn't still tie up the ER.

My mother-in-law would have died under socialized medicine because (per her symptoms) she wouldn't have been seen. Like I said, there are pros and cons.

The people in the ER are tied up with non-emergency situations because of the number of people who don't have insurance or a PCP. Universal coverage would eliminate this problem and provide wellness testing which would reduce the number of serious illnesses in general. Under the current system, the life expectancy in America is actually going DOWN for the first time in decades. We have a very poor, inefficient system (worst in the industrialized world).

 

[FollowTheWay]

Why? There was a time when almost every male citizen carried a gun (or at least owned a gun). These problems didn't exist then. If guns are the problem then why now?

There was a need for guns out on the frontier that largely doesn't exist now. So they are used for mass murders and domestic violence instead.

 

[FollowTheWay]

What do you mean (more than one gun/citizen)?

Do you mean one gun per citizen (i.e., I shouldn't have a handgun, a hunting rifle, and a shotgun)?
Or more than one type of citizen that owns a gun?

Statistically there are more guns in the U.S. than citizens.

 

[JonC]

The people in the ER are tied up with non-emergency situations because of the number of people who don't have insurance or a PCP. Universal coverage would eliminate this problem and provide wellness testing which would reduce the number of serious illnesses in general. Under the current system, the life expectancy in America is actually going DOWN for the first time in decades. We have a very poor, inefficient system (worst in the industrialized world).

I agree that you have identified a problem with our system. It is unfortunate that your solution wouldn't solve the problem.

Have you ever considered the effects that the U.S. turning to socialized medicine would have on not only our nation but the world? Have you thought of the consequences should the pharmaceutical and research institutions lose their "cash cow"?

There are many factors. But the notion that placing a greater load on non-urgent care facilities would reduce serious illnesses in general is a stretch.

 

[JonC]

Statistically there are more guns in the U.S. than citizens.

I own 6.

I have a handgun I like taking to the range. I have one for my wife as well (a revolver, she can't work the slide). I have a hunting rifle from when I took my son hunting. I have a .22 rifle (again, from taking my son hunting for small game). I have two shotguns that we use for skeet (and need to pick up another....my son is on the High School skeet team).

Do you believe that, since I own 6 guns, 5 should be taken away? If so, which ones?

 

[kyredneck]

America is like the wild west once again.

You don't know what you're talking about. Rural Americans grow up immersed in firearms and their societies are civil and law abiding. It's the big cities that Democrats control that are becoming lawless.

 

[JonC]

You don't know what you're talking about. Rural Americans grow up immersed in firearms and their societies are civil and law abiding. It's the big cities that Democrats control that are becoming lawless.

Yea.....what's next....lawn darts???

 

[Revmitchell]

There was a need for guns out on the frontier that largely doesn't exist now. So they are used for mass murders and domestic violence instead.

Nothing about this post is true. Further it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstand of the 2nd amendment.

 

[JonC]

Nothing about this post is true. Further it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstand of the 2nd amendment.

What???? His statement isn't true???? You mean I'm not the only one who hasn't used my guns for mass murder and domestic violence?

But most Americans use their guns for mass murder and domestic violence....right?

 

[Yeshua1]

Careful, you're trying to use logic on a liberal; same basic fallacy as "casting pearls before swine!"

That is why I really see demonic forces of darkness converging in Washington DC, as they are now coming out in the open to disclose hatred towards any and all trying to stand for the right stuff!

 

[Yeshua1]

It wasn't just income tax. (And I've never been to the UK...my cousin lived there, though).

My main point, however, is that I believe most Americans who are in favor of a socialistic health care system see the pros but ignore the cons. They are accustomed to a type of medical care that they would be forfeiting. Perhaps it is worth it. Maybe what would be lost is minimal. But Americans need to understand that we are not looking at the same type of care they receive now.

Socalized medicine gives you better access to drugs at lower costs, but the other effect is practically none can qualify for major surgeries, and takes forever to get one done!

 

[JonC]

Socalized medicine gives you better access to drugs at lower costs, but the other effect is practically none can qualify for major surgeries, and takes forever to get one done!

Someone has to flip the bill.