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Gun or Bible
- Thread starter g'day mate
- Start date
In the context of guns, generally yes. A few have shotguns for hunting purposes, but the concept of guns for "personal protection" does not really exist here. Handguns are totally illegal, except for police officers, etc.
Yes, I agree. But consider: the protection we have is because of the *military*, not your "armed populace". Our military also uses guns, believe it or not.
If there was no "armed populace" in the USA, Canada would still have that same protection. I'm simply responding to the question about being able to have the Bible without an armed populace, and Canada is proof that this is possible.This is true ONLY as long as your government is willing to allow such! When (not if) bibles are outlawed because they teach against homosexuality (hate speech, you know) what is going to be your method of keeping your bibles?
Not just picking on Canada, cause without the 2nd here, we could very well be facing the same thing; and probably will soon's the left manages to confiscate all personal firearms ! (Again, when, not if)
I would choose the Bible because I would just hurt myself with a gun. Actually, given the choice between a gun and no gun, I'd choose no gun. I don't have any reason to own one.
On the other hand, if my Bibles were guns I'd have been raided by the ATF for stockpiling long before now... I'd prefer to study Scripture over killing animals any day of the week!
Eric
Dan Stiles
New Member
When the day comes that Canada's Parliment outlaws the Bible because of "hate" speech, several things will happen:
1. There will be a new and approved Canadian verion of the Bible (eh?).
2. Many will cross the border to the USA.
3. The Canadian confederacy MAY even break up, but not with Quebec leading the way - they'd be third at best - the western provinces except for BC would charge out with rural Ontario hot on their heels.
4. Bibles would be well hidden from the authorities and kept "at the ready" - just like many guns are now kept hidden away. (The Canadian populace is more armed than you might think!)
1. There will be a new and approved Canadian verion of the Bible (eh?).
2. Many will cross the border to the USA.
3. The Canadian confederacy MAY even break up, but not with Quebec leading the way - they'd be third at best - the western provinces except for BC would charge out with rural Ontario hot on their heels.
4. Bibles would be well hidden from the authorities and kept "at the ready" - just like many guns are now kept hidden away. (The Canadian populace is more armed than you might think!)
Brian, please confirm or deny this. For the second time I heard that Canada has a law about to go into effect that says reading allowed Scripture stateing homosexuality is a sin will be considered a hate crime. If this is true than y'all aren't too far from losing your Bibles all together.
You're probably thinking of Bill C-415, which is about adding "sexual orientation" to the list ("colour, race, religion, ethnic origin") about hate crime. What effect this will have on scripture is *pure speculation* at this time, but I strongly doubt it will have any effect at all. What does any of this have to do with guns?
Brian, it is simple, once you allow your government to take away one of your rights that they prefer you not have, the rest of your rights and freedoms are in danger of being removed too.
I hope and pray that Canadian believers are not effected, but I figure it is just a matter of time before a pastor there is arrested for preaching the Word.
I hope and pray that Canadian believers are not effected, but I figure it is just a matter of time before a pastor there is arrested for preaching the Word.
??? And having a gun is going to change that??? Bill C-415 has nothing to do with guns, and would have been put forth whether Canadians had "the right to bear arms" or not. BTW, I hope C-415 gets passed: hate-crime towards *anyone* should not be tolerated, and should be punishable by law.
Brian, I am sorry, but you just don't get it. You do not understand that your government are supposed to protect your rights, not remove them.
I agree hate crimes are terrible and wrong, but if your law states that reading a Bible verse that says homosexuality is a sin, is a hate crime then your government has issues. Homosexuality is a sin, Scripture says so. If your law says if reading those verses outloud is a sin, then y'all have not only lost your right to bare arms, you have lost your free speach. What will you lose next? the right to vote, drive, say things about the government that you disagree with? What if adulterers are offended by Scripture deeming them sinners, or killers, will it be a hate crime to read the 10 commandments? Canadian right now is proving government is proving the slipery sloap principle that we gun owning people have been talking about.
You don't want to own a gun, fine, don't buy one (not that you could there). As for me, if someone breaks in my house, I won't have to wait 5-10-15 minutes for a cop to get there to defend my life, I will do it. If I want to go hunting, I will get a permit and go hunting. Ifwant to go to a target range I will do it. It is great to be FREE, not a republic. Oh, and guess what, I can do every one of those things while reading my Bible outloud to anyone I like.
[ November 05, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: FearNot ]
I agree hate crimes are terrible and wrong, but if your law states that reading a Bible verse that says homosexuality is a sin, is a hate crime then your government has issues. Homosexuality is a sin, Scripture says so. If your law says if reading those verses outloud is a sin, then y'all have not only lost your right to bare arms, you have lost your free speach. What will you lose next? the right to vote, drive, say things about the government that you disagree with? What if adulterers are offended by Scripture deeming them sinners, or killers, will it be a hate crime to read the 10 commandments? Canadian right now is proving government is proving the slipery sloap principle that we gun owning people have been talking about.
You don't want to own a gun, fine, don't buy one (not that you could there). As for me, if someone breaks in my house, I won't have to wait 5-10-15 minutes for a cop to get there to defend my life, I will do it. If I want to go hunting, I will get a permit and go hunting. Ifwant to go to a target range I will do it. It is great to be FREE, not a republic. Oh, and guess what, I can do every one of those things while reading my Bible outloud to anyone I like.
[ November 05, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: FearNot ]
stubbornkelly
New Member
I still don't see how bill C-415 could possibly make reading the Bible illegal as a hate crime. The bill is very specific about what constitutes a hate crime, and I'm sorry, but reading certain passages in the Bible just doesn't constitute hate speech under the proposed law. I certainly understand your point about the slippery slope, but I don't think it applies here. Bill C-415 would not make reading any part of the Bible illegal, nor would it make teaching immorality of homosexuality illegal.
Not that I'm a fan of hate crime laws, but the arguments against this one need work.
Anyway, if I had to choose, I'd pick my Bible. I don't own a gun, nor do I ever think I will.
Not that I'm a fan of hate crime laws, but the arguments against this one need work.
Anyway, if I had to choose, I'd pick my Bible. I don't own a gun, nor do I ever think I will.
Yes, I do get it. Which of my rights are being removed by making it illegal to commit hate-crimes against homosexuals? My right to commit hate-crimes against homosexuals?
"If" that's what the law was saying, I would agree with you. But there is no such law, nor one coming. All the hype over C-415 is uninformed paranoia. If you read the info *carefully* you would even see that C-415 is about *protecting* rights, *including religious ones*.
[ November 05, 2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
Dan Stiles
New Member
Essentially, so-called hate crime laws are superfulous. If it is a crime to hit someone (and it is), how can you make that crime more of a crime by making the "reason" for hitting them a crime too? For example, if I slander you, I am guilty and there are both civil and criminal remedies. Under so-called hate crime legislation, if I slander you, I am guilty and there are both civil and criminal remedies - but you also get to try to determine and prove my thoughts were "hateful" at the time. Well, duh, slander implies hatefulness. Evil is evil; why cloud the issue and crowd the courts trying to determine if my thoughts were pure or not?
As for how this might effect the Bible, if taken to a logical extention, we can all testify that the Word of God influences our thoughts and actions - or should - and that can be seen as invoking (or rather provoking) "hate" against "special interest groups."
As for how this might effect the Bible, if taken to a logical extention, we can all testify that the Word of God influences our thoughts and actions - or should - and that can be seen as invoking (or rather provoking) "hate" against "special interest groups."
Brian, like I said earlier, I don't know all the specifics about the law. That is why I asked you to tell them to me.
It actually would be very helpful since you are familiar with it if you created a thread on it with a web site with information concerning it. That would help those of us who do not live in Canada. We get very little news here about Canada.
It actually would be very helpful since you are familiar with it if you created a thread on it with a web site with information concerning it. That would help those of us who do not live in Canada. We get very little news here about Canada.
There's not much to tell, and I'm simply amazed at the circus this has become in some Christian circles. OK, here is *the entire issue*, and anything more than this is sensationalistic rubbish:
Bill C-415 is about making a small change to Section 318 of the Criminal Code of Canada. Section 318 deals with genocide, and in entirety, reads:
Bill C-415, in entirety, reads:
Despite what some extremists are saying, this is NOT about giving up rights, this is NOT about the end of free speech in Canada, this is NOT about making it illegal to say homosexuality is a sin, or throwing Christians in jail or outlawing the Bible - as anyone can plainly see.
Dan Stiles
New Member
Yes, thanks Brian. I realize you don't see how this could possibly be turned into a way to make the Bible illegal in Canada, but then again, prior to 1948, no one knew anything about a "separation of Church and State" in the US constitution. Some folks live for the inch that will allow a mile.
