Guns Rights Zealots--Shoot Down this Idea

[annsni]

Columbine had an armed security officer in the school who actually fired at one of the shooters. Worked pretty good didn't it?

One against two works great. Maybe in a high school that size, if there were 5 or 6, there would have been a different outcome.

 

[Revmitchell]

One against two works great. Maybe in a high school that size, if there were 5 or 6, there would have been a different outcome.

And quite frankly its not known how aggressive he was.

 

[InTheLight]

ITL - here's where I have a problem with your opening post: impose harsher penalties on those whose guns are used....

NO. Please re-think that. I don't want someone stealing my car because I left it running; using to rob a convenience store and/or maybe even murder someone (not with the car, but the car used to get them to the place), and then have some zealous DA press charges against me for complicity simply because the thief/murderer was granted access through the use of my vehicle.

Further, I don't want to loan my vehicle to someone, then find out I'm being charged with a crime because, unbeknownst to me, the person I loaned it to used it to commit a crime.

There is no justice in either of those scenarios. Just as there is no justice in charging the owner of a firearm if their weapons are taken by someone else and used to commit a crime. Keeping them stored in a weapons safe or with trigger locks supplied by the manufacturer suffice; those that are intent on using a stolen weapon will find a way to do so.

You make a good point. I should have been clearer--I meant to say if a crime is committed with a stolen gun that was not secured, either didn't have a trigger lock or wasn't locked in a case, there would be stiffer penalties. The penalties would work in conjunction and add teeth to the requirement to secure unattended guns. My intention is that unless your guns are in your possession, they should be locked up.

 

[InTheLight]

Okay, So I have trigger locks on my pistol - a robber comes in my house at 2 am - I wake up - scrabble to get my 38 undo the trigger lock - oh wait I wont have time because he shot me while I was trying to get the trigger lock off......

The link I provided is to a trigger lock with a lighted dial and is named "Speed Release Trigger Lock". I presume it could be removed in a matter of seconds.

 

[Salty]

The link I provided is to a trigger lock with a lighted dial and is named "Speed Release Trigger Lock". I presume it could be removed in a matter of seconds.

and a mattter of seconds can cost you your life

 

[Salty]

Interesting article - written by a firearms instructor

 

[InTheLight]

Interesting article - written by a firearms instructor

Agree with the article. My point is if you are going to leave a gun unattended you should secure it.

In your scenario of a robber entering your house late at night, I have no problem if you choose to not have a trigger lock on it. But if you live with other people that have not been trained in the use of firearms, and you are not at home, I believe that guns should be secured.

 

[Revmitchell]

It is best just to have a gun safe for those with multiple guns.

 

[annsni]

And quite frankly its not known how aggressive he was.

Plus, pre-Columbine was a different world. It's like pre 9/11. Knowing what we know now, there ARE sick people who will go and kill a bunch of people "just because". So now a shooter is in a school? Anyone armed knows to take them down.

 

[Don]

You make a good point. I should have been clearer--I meant to say if a crime is committed with a stolen gun that was not secured, either didn't have a trigger lock or wasn't locked in a case, there would be stiffer penalties. The penalties would work in conjunction and add teeth to the requirement to secure unattended guns. My intention is that unless your guns are in your possession, they should be locked up.

But--I left them secured in my house. The doors were locked, the windows barred. Am I still culpable if someone breaks into my house, searches through the closets, and finds where I hid the weapons?

 

[Mexdeaf]

You make a good point. I should have been clearer--I meant to say if a crime is committed with a stolen gun that was not secured, either didn't have a trigger lock or wasn't locked in a case, there would be stiffer penalties. The penalties would work in conjunction and add teeth to the requirement to secure unattended guns. My intention is that unless your guns are in your possession, they should be locked up.

A drill with a good diamond-tipped bit or a hammer and a chisel can dispatch most gun locks and many of the smaller gun safes. Criminals can always steal the gun (or safe), gain access to the weapon, and then use it. How are law-abiding gun owners going to prove that the weapon WAS safed or locked?

 

[InTheLight]

But--I left them secured in my house. The doors were locked, the windows barred. Am I still culpable if someone breaks into my house, searches through the closets, and finds where I hid the weapons?

I would say no, you are not.

I don't want someone stealing my car because I left it running; using to rob a convenience store and/or maybe even murder someone (not with the car, but the car used to get them to the place), and then have some zealous DA press charges against me for complicity simply because the thief/murderer was granted access through the use of my vehicle.

Leaving your keys in your vehicle is a crime in many states. So I would guess in these states you likely would be charged with complicity. (I didn't say it was fair!)

Further, I don't want to loan my vehicle to someone, then find out I'm being charged with a crime because, unbeknownst to me, the person I loaned it to used it to commit a crime.

Which is exactly what frequently happens when you get a photo radar ticket for speeding when someone else is using your car. (I didn't say it was fair!)

In the case of a stolen weapon being used in a crime, because of these other precedents, I suppose you would have to attempt to prove that the weapons were secure, that you were following the law and then it would be up to a judge or jury to determine your culpability, if any.

 

[Salty]

A drill with a good diamond-tipped bit or a hammer and a chisel can dispatch most gun locks and many of the smaller gun safes. Criminals can always steal the gun (or safe), gain access to the weapon, and then use it. How are law-abiding gun owners going to prove that the weapon WAS safed or locked?

Install a hidden video camera

Remember the gun owner is guility until proven innocent

 

[InTheLight]

A drill with a good diamond-tipped bit or a hammer and a chisel can dispatch most gun locks and many of the smaller gun safes. Criminals can always steal the gun (or safe), gain access to the weapon, and then use it. How are law-abiding gun owners going to prove that the weapon WAS safed or locked?

I suppose the same way they prove other things--eyewitnesses, photographs, receipts.

 

[saturneptune]

I have openly invited anyone here that feels they want to, come to my house at 2 am, break in and take my guns.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have openly invited anyone here that feels they want to, come to my house at 2 am, break in and take my guns.

Really?!!!

What kind do you have? Do you have a 30/30? I am looking for a good one.

 

[just-want-peace]

Really?!!!

What kind do you have? Do you have a 30/30? I am looking for a good one.

Got a feeling that you may find out if you tried -------- not necessarily the way you would CHOOSE to find out tho'!!:laugh:

 

[Oldtimer]

You make a good point. I should have been clearer--I meant to say if a crime is committed with a stolen gun that was not secured, either didn't have a trigger lock or wasn't locked in a case, there would be stiffer penalties. The penalties would work in conjunction and add teeth to the requirement to secure unattended guns. My intention is that unless your guns are in your possession, they should be locked up.

1) Ever hear the saying that locks only keep honest people out? A determined thief will find a way to get what he wants. We generally think of banks, fine museums, and prisons has having the best "locks". Yet, thieves manage to cart off what they want from all these places.

2) As mentioned earlier, a drill (and a vice in the case of a firearm) can make quick work of locks. Unless there's a type of homeowner safe that I don't know about, drills will open them. Rather quietly and rather easily.

3) Gun control advocates are using every means possible to make having a gun useless. Reminds me of OSHA. Some of the rules they put into place made the legimate use of some manufacturing equipment null and void. The machine could not be operated, at all, with the required safeguards in place. Same thing is taking place with firearms, whether addressing "safety" features or the bullets used in them.

4) What's next? (I'm not joking about this, nor trying to be sarcastic.)

Once my guns become useless, what else will I have to secure, behind my locked door, so that a criminal cannot use it to commit another crime, commit suicide, or accidently hurt themselves? Knives, scissors, castiron skillets, ropes, telephone cords, aspirin, matches, butter, pillows, stairways.... well you get the idea. Our homes would be turned into the equivalent of a high security prision cell, with a useless firearm mounted over the, now safe & secure, fireplace.

 

[Arbo]

1) Ever hear the saying that locks only keep honest people out? A determined thief will find a way to get what he wants. We generally think of banks, fine museums, and prisons has having the best "locks". Yet, thieves manage to cart off what they want from all these places.

Thieves will find ways around trigger locks. Remember The Club that was supposed to stop auto theft?

 

[Don]

I would say no, you are not.

Leaving your keys in your vehicle is a crime in many states. So I would guess in these states you likely would be charged with complicity. (I didn't say it was fair!)

Which is exactly what frequently happens when you get a photo radar ticket for speeding when someone else is using your car. (I didn't say it was fair!)

In the case of a stolen weapon being used in a crime, because of these other precedents, I suppose you would have to attempt to prove that the weapons were secure, that you were following the law and then it would be up to a judge or jury to determine your culpability, if any.

Are you putting forth that those laws are okay, even though you admit they're not fair?