SaggyWoman
Active Member
Both were treated terribly during the Holocaust. But gypsies still are treated horribly. Why is this?
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Gypsies and Jews
- Thread starter SaggyWoman
- Start date
Gypsies?
This term has different meanings to different folks.
MY original understanding of the term was the "traditional" gypsy depiction as one sees on an old tv show-the women were "loose", the men were thieves--and they all dressed rather boldly.
When I lived in SC, there was a large settlement of "gypsies" there that were quite unlike this tv stereotype in many ways. But, in many ways, they were EXACTLY like the tv characters. As a group, they were known for pulling "cons" on anyone they could, and they lived a life that segregated them from any "outside world" contact (other than when they were running a con). Perhaps the treatment ANYONE fitting the "gypsy" label may receive stems from the fact that there are groups of gypsies KNOWN to be con-artists, etc.?????
This term has different meanings to different folks.
MY original understanding of the term was the "traditional" gypsy depiction as one sees on an old tv show-the women were "loose", the men were thieves--and they all dressed rather boldly.
When I lived in SC, there was a large settlement of "gypsies" there that were quite unlike this tv stereotype in many ways. But, in many ways, they were EXACTLY like the tv characters. As a group, they were known for pulling "cons" on anyone they could, and they lived a life that segregated them from any "outside world" contact (other than when they were running a con). Perhaps the treatment ANYONE fitting the "gypsy" label may receive stems from the fact that there are groups of gypsies KNOWN to be con-artists, etc.?????
SaggyWoman
Active Member
The Roma people.
Wow SaggyWoman!
I had no idea of all this! A quick Google search pulled up a LOT of awful info about the persecution.
Perhaps the opening paragraph on this website (http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/porraimos.htm )
will offer a "why":
Long before the Nazi Party came to power in Germany, the European Roma were despised and rejected. Their foreign appearance, their strange customs and language, their nomadic way of life and lack of regular employment contradicted established conventions. The European states decided that the only way to deal with the Roma was to remove them by expulsion, repression, assimilation and, later, extermination.
Now, I'm not saying that makes it RIGHT, I'm just saying that's apparently part of the "reason" behind it. Isn't that part of what always causes persecution, hatred, misunderstandings, wars, etc.? "You're different from me, so therefore you must be wrong and stopped or gotten rid of"? This kind of thinking is responsible for everything from racial prejudice and genocide to little kids fighting on the playground. And we ALL know where THAT kind of thinking comes from.....
I had no idea of all this! A quick Google search pulled up a LOT of awful info about the persecution.
Perhaps the opening paragraph on this website (http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/porraimos.htm )
will offer a "why":
Long before the Nazi Party came to power in Germany, the European Roma were despised and rejected. Their foreign appearance, their strange customs and language, their nomadic way of life and lack of regular employment contradicted established conventions. The European states decided that the only way to deal with the Roma was to remove them by expulsion, repression, assimilation and, later, extermination.
Now, I'm not saying that makes it RIGHT, I'm just saying that's apparently part of the "reason" behind it. Isn't that part of what always causes persecution, hatred, misunderstandings, wars, etc.? "You're different from me, so therefore you must be wrong and stopped or gotten rid of"? This kind of thinking is responsible for everything from racial prejudice and genocide to little kids fighting on the playground. And we ALL know where THAT kind of thinking comes from.....
You wouldn't by chance be referring to the settlement between Edgefield and Augusta, would you?
The name of that place, if I remember correctly, was (is) Murphy Village.
Yep, from all I heard about them, they were super con-artists.
Just-want-peace--
YES! Thats's the settlement I'm referring to! I didn't remember the name "Murphy Village", though.
The stories I heard while living there were shocking and amazing. The only actual personal contact I had with any of them was indirectly (when I'd pass a group in Wal-Mart or something like that). Their behavior and "ways" were very "strange" to me.
The only actual knowledge I have of their illegal activities involved their business dealings through a bank I worked at "farther up-river" in Georgia. They tended to use banks NOT in their hometown to "hide" their money.
My knowledge of their lifestyle is a good example of WHY the gypsies (in general) may have been so persecuted. Almost everything I personally KNOW about the South Carolina group is negative (they even did a story about them on 60 Minutes or one of those tv news magazines a couple years back). ALL the personal stories I ever heard about them from others were negative. Tends to create a breeding ground of mistrust and misunderstanding at the very least. And after a time, with enough BAD/negative interaction with the "outside world", it could certainly lead to hatred.
YES! Thats's the settlement I'm referring to! I didn't remember the name "Murphy Village", though.
The stories I heard while living there were shocking and amazing. The only actual personal contact I had with any of them was indirectly (when I'd pass a group in Wal-Mart or something like that). Their behavior and "ways" were very "strange" to me.
The only actual knowledge I have of their illegal activities involved their business dealings through a bank I worked at "farther up-river" in Georgia. They tended to use banks NOT in their hometown to "hide" their money.
My knowledge of their lifestyle is a good example of WHY the gypsies (in general) may have been so persecuted. Almost everything I personally KNOW about the South Carolina group is negative (they even did a story about them on 60 Minutes or one of those tv news magazines a couple years back). ALL the personal stories I ever heard about them from others were negative. Tends to create a breeding ground of mistrust and misunderstanding at the very least. And after a time, with enough BAD/negative interaction with the "outside world", it could certainly lead to hatred.
Pennsylvania Jim
New Member
Are you sure they weren't Amish?
It's a big election issue over here (the Conservatives' election song ought to be that song by Cher about gypsies)and there's a case going through the courts presently involving the rights of Romanies to settle on approved sites in Leeds. The fact is that gypsies have been discriminated against for years, as their planning applications are usually rejected - at a rate far higher than applications by the settled population. If that is finally being righted, I would be very pleased. I don't think groups should suffer discrimination just because the majority don't like them.
I have been following the case in Leeds and if the Law Lords rule in favour of the travellers then the situation will be drastically changed and human rights will be something that could be invoked in many instances.
The situation the Law Lords will be in is tricky since there is no doubt councils are failing in their duty of care of the travelling community. Yet you can't have people building on land without planning permission.
A good ruling would go something along the lines it is illegal to live on this sight but Leeds Council must find some where for them to live.
Yours in Christ
Matt
I have been following the case in Leeds and if the Law Lords rule in favour of the travellers then the situation will be drastically changed and human rights will be something that could be invoked in many instances.
The situation the Law Lords will be in is tricky since there is no doubt councils are failing in their duty of care of the travelling community. Yet you can't have people building on land without planning permission.
A good ruling would go something along the lines it is illegal to live on this sight but Leeds Council must find some where for them to live.
Yours in Christ
Matt
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I would bet this would be the case.
No, Blackbird. About 11 million people were killed in the holocaust, about 6 million of them Jews. The next largest group would have been Slavs (Poles, Ukrainians and Russians, in particular.)
The number of Roma people who were killed is a subject speculation, ranging from 200,000 to 500,000, although some researchers claim even more died.
Proportionally, the Gypsies are believed to have suffered more than another group, including the Jews.
The number of Roma people who were killed is a subject speculation, ranging from 200,000 to 500,000, although some researchers claim even more died.
Proportionally, the Gypsies are believed to have suffered more than another group, including the Jews.
Marcia
Active Member
I know some things about this as my sister is a missionary to the Roma people overseas (cannot name country). The Roma are hated everywhere in Europe -- there are many reasons for this:
1. They stick together as a people (this is a culture thing that is very hard to break) and keep to their culture so this keeps them from mixing in and being part of whatever country they are in
2. There are a lot of stereotypes that people think apply to all Roma (some Roma steal and con people but this is a stereotype -- they are not all like this! I visited my sister in 2000 and went to the Roma community with her -- they are very hospitable to guests)
3. They live in isolated communities which only increases the problem of poverty and lack of education; it's a vicious cycle
4. They are suspicious of outsiders, having been persecuted before, and this makes them keep to themselves more which only increases the distance between them and mainstream culture
It's very sad. In some countries, they put Roma children with normal intelligence in schools for mentally impaired children.
There are not enough missionaries to the Roma, who badly need to know Christ. Maybe someone reading this will be convicted and led to go!
