hair length/head covering

[Magnetic Poles]

The reasons for some of these odd cultural customs have been lost in time, but remain as vestigial behaviors without any real reasons for them. Why would a woman need a so-called "covering"? Both genders grow hair on their heads (although mine is rapidly leaving).

 

[DHK]

The reasons for some of these odd cultural customs have been lost in time, but remain as vestigial behaviors without any real reasons for them. Why would a woman need a so-called "covering"? Both genders grow hair on their heads (although mine is rapidly leaving).

Cultural customs?
Lost in time?
Vestigial behaviours?
No real reasons for them? (even though six are given)

Is this what you think of the observance of the Lord's Supper, also discussed in the same chapter as wearing a head covering?

Since when do customs dictate how God's Word should change. Perhaps you are a product of the public school system. I am not sure, but it sounds like it. Those key phrases like: "There are no absolutes."
"Everything is relative."
"What is right for you may not be right for me."
"The only absolute is, 'There are no absolutes.'"

This is classic humanism, the (im)moral fabric of the public school system.

Thus even though Paul gives six good reason why a woman should wear a head-covering in the first 15 verses of 1Cor.11, you dismiss every one of them, and simply say, they are all cultural and not for today.

Just like:
Baptism is not for today,
Lord's Supper is not for today,
Prayer is not for today,
Neither is the Bible or the Atonement.

Why be a Christian if your going to throw out the parts you don't like? Which part of the Bible do you intend on cutting out of your Bible next??

 

[dcorbett]

Don't EVEN put the Lord's supper in the same category as the hair issue.

One is an ordinance. The other is opinion.

 

[John18]

What we need to really look at here is what the SCRIPTURES say and not what man wants it to say or what man wants to do.It is not an opinion when the Bible says that we should not do something.

The Bible tells us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair,that should be all that needs to be said on the subject.

In our day and time,many want to sugar coat things and make them less meaninigful than they are.Yes,women do work and have long hair but the thought here is that it is a shame for a man to have long hair.

Those on the board have belittled one certain poster for his comments,comments that are in many ways correct and as Baptists we should be upholding the old time teachings that used to be taught and that allowed the Spirit to work and get the lost saved.

It may be that many will someday stand before God and give an account of why they sugar coated the teachings of the Bible and of the many they may have led astray and or were stumbling blocks to.

We have those that drink alcohol when the Bible says to not even LOOK at it in the cup.We have those that say this or that just as a certain poster says when they want to do something that isnt correct.

We have lowered our standards so much that many are so aligned with the world that there is little if any difference from the lost.

We are SUPPOSED to be a seperate people,a peculiar people.We are to be a people that walk in a way that we are set apart from the world,this isnt seen much any longer.

We are to be in the world but NOT of it,we are not to partake of the worldy things.

If we do do wrong,we are chastised.If there is no chastisment,

Hebrews 12:7
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Hebrews 12:8
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Many have left the old ways for a new and modern way.Many have left the old paths for the new.

We may live in the present but we are to remember that God is the same yesterday,today and forever.Those that uphold the teachings of the Bible are not living in the past but are holding to the teachings that the Bible still holds to.

It is hard to be different when one does the same things and goes to the same places that the world does.

 

[D28guy]

John18,

"The Bible tells us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair,that should be all that needs to be said on the subject."

Ok.

How long constitutes "too" long?

Touching the ear? Going to down to the bottom of the ear lobe? Touching the collar? Bangs in front? Bangs to the eyebrow?

When is it too long? I'm serious.

If the scriptures in question are not a "cultural" issue that may have meant more back then then it does now, as those such as yourself seem to be advocating, and it really is the same identical application to us as it was then.....then we need to have the specifics. It is imperative that we have the specifics!

We need to know the exact point that we become disobediant. We need to know so that we will be sure and not let it get to that point...and become "long"...so that we can continue to be right with God.

Please enlighten us.

Mike

(btw...my hair doesnt touch my ears or collar, but I might want to grow it long like I used to. When...specifically...do I have to stop?)

 

[DHK]

Don't EVEN put the Lord's supper in the same category as the hair issue.

One is an ordinance. The other is opinion.

The "other" is also an ordinance; not opinion.

1 Corinthians 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

An ordinance is a command or a law. Our city has lots of them.

 

[blackbird]

Don't EVEN put the Lord's supper in the same category as the hair issue.

One is an ordinance. The other is opinion.

Regardless of the fact----the "Opinion"(as some like to call it) is still part of infallable Scripture and must be obeyed

Now, obviously----the "opinion" was written for the people of THAT day----but we still MUST find application in our day

Its not the idea of bending Scripture to fit culture---or ignoring Scripture all together when we believe it was "just an opinion" or when we believe "Well---Paul was speaking of culture of his day, not ours!!"

We find out what Scripture is saying to culture of that day and then bend ourselves to its application

Some in modern society take Paul's "head covering" to the extreme----some ignore it----usually both "camps" completely miss the application

 

[gb93433]

When you can't come up with answer to it from your Bible, you can always refer to G.I. Barber. He did his doctoral disertation on hair. He talks about lengths.

http://babulife.blogs.com/weblog/files/hairology.mp3

That was funny but yet so true of those who check their brains at the door.

 

[tinytim]

Regardless of the fact----the "Opinion"(as some like to call it) is still part of infallable Scripture and must be obeyed

Now, obviously----the "opinion" was written for the people of THAT day----but we still MUST find application in our day

Its not the idea of bending Scripture to fit culture---or ignoring Scripture all together when we believe it was "just an opinion" or when we believe "Well---Paul was speaking of culture of his day, not ours!!"

We find out what Scripture is saying to culture of that day and then bend ourselves to its application

Some in modern society take Paul's "head covering" to the extreme----some ignore it----usually both "camps" completely miss the application

True, in today's time the wedding band is a symbol of the wife's submission to her husband. a head covering around here symbolizes that you are part of the amish of mennonites.. in other places it symbolizes islam... I wouldn't want my wife wearing one because I wouldn't want people thinking she was in any of those cults.

So, we take the application... and she wears a wedding ring...

The problem is, she wants a bigger one....

So, can I tell her when she humbly obeys me in all things, I will get her a big ol ring? :laugh: :laugh:

 

[blackbird]

True, in today's time the wedding band is a symbol of the wife's submission to her husband. a head covering around here symbolizes that you are part of the amish of mennonites.. in other places it symbolizes islam... I wouldn't want my wife wearing one because I wouldn't want people thinking she was in any of those cults.

So, we take the application... and she wears a wedding ring...

The problem is, she wants a bigger one....

So, can I tell her when she humbly obeys me in all things, I will get her a big ol ring? :laugh: :laugh:

By all means---go ahead---but be forwarned---the line at the Jewelry store is a long one!!!

Warn her, though-----one false move---one deed done out of place---one ill word spoken in haste---and the trip to the jewelry store is HISTORY!!!!:laugh:

 

[DHK]

Just one of the six reasons Paul gave for a woman wearing a head-covering:

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Now, please tell me what that has to do with culture.

Tell me in what century did the culture of the time start changing the truths of the Word of God.

 

[blackbird]

Just one of the six reasons Paul gave for a woman wearing a head-covering:

1 Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Now, please tell me what that has to do with culture.

Tell me in what century did the culture of the time start changing the truths of the Word of God.

Everlasting truth is what??? Everlasting!!! Unchanging!! Cultures change but Scripture is as eternal as God is

But if you consider the context of 1Cor 11:10-------why was Paul writing to the Corinthian believers??? Obviously---the church there in Corinth had more problems than you could "shake a stick at"----cultures comeing into the church ---- cultures desiring to bend the church to suit their needs---no different than cultures of today

In 1Cor 11:10----obviously there was a problem in the physical realm that was "touching" the spiritual realm in which Angels reside----no different than today----I teach my congregation that everything they do and say---in and outside the four walls of the church touches the unseen world

Folks just can't get a grip on living in two different realms---the physical and spiritual---both touching each other---intertwineing with each other

Lets find out exactly WHY what women wear----has any sort of influence toward the Angelic world

 

[DHK]

Everlasting truth is what??? Everlasting!!! Unchanging!! Cultures change but Scripture is as eternal as God is

[/quote]
So why are most allowing this culture to change the unalterable Word of God, or simply rationalize and give excuses not to obey it.
Fifty to seventy years ago (and before) you would never see a woman enter a church without a head-covering. And that is what these verses speak about--a head-covering, not hair. Not until one gets to verse 14 does Paul begin speaking about hair. The word he uses for covering in verse 15 (peribolaion) is even different than the word used for covering in verses 3-6 (kataluptw). The context is different, and the subject matter is different. Verses one to 13 definitely speak about an actual head-covering different than the hair.

But as I say, Why do women fifty years back and in almost every other part of the world wear head-coverings in their churches. It is only in our heathen "civilized" western nations that we deliberately choose to disobey God in this matter.

 

[Danny Hurley]

hair lenth/head covering

So why are most allowing this culture to change the unalterable Word of God, or simply rationalize and give excuses not to obey it.
Fifty to seventy years ago (and before) you would never see a woman enter a church without a head-covering. And that is what these verses speak about--a head-covering, not hair. Not until one gets to verse 14 does Paul begin speaking about hair. The word he uses for covering in verse 15 (peribolaion) is even different than the word used for covering in verses 3-6 (kataluptw). The context is different, and the subject matter is different. Verses one to 13 definitely speak about an actual head-covering different than the hair.

But as I say, Why do women fifty years back and in almost every other part of the world wear head-coverings in their churches. It is only in our heathen "civilized" western nations that we deliberately choose to disobey God in this matter.[/QUOTE]

Why did Paul say that her HAIR was given her for a covering?

 

[charles_creech78]

So why are most allowing this culture to change the unalterable Word of God, or simply rationalize and give excuses not to obey it.
Fifty to seventy years ago (and before) you would never see a woman enter a church without a head-covering. And that is what these verses speak about--a head-covering, not hair. Not until one gets to verse 14 does Paul begin speaking about hair. The word he uses for covering in verse 15 (peribolaion) is even different than the word used for covering in verses 3-6 (kataluptw). The context is different, and the subject matter is different. Verses one to 13 definitely speak about an actual head-covering different than the hair.

But as I say, Why do women fifty years back and in almost every other part of the world wear head-coverings in their churches. It is only in our heathen "civilized" western nations that we deliberately choose to disobey God in this matter.[/QUOTE]
1co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is GIVEN her for a covering . I don't think he was talking about a rag here.

 

[DHK]

Why did Paul say that her HAIR was given her for a covering?

In contrast to verse 14, which says that it is a shame for a man to have long hair, Paul says that long hair on a woman is a glory to her. It was a contrast that he was a making. For a woman long hair was her glory. To a man long hair was a shame. That is a whole different context than the first 13 verses. It is not saying that the hair is "the head-covering" spoken of in verses 3-6. Just look at another translation:

1 Corinthians 11:6 For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.

It is evident that the "veil" or head-covering is not her hair. It is a different context. "Hair" would not even make sense in this verse.

 

[Beth]

ok, earthshattering news

Ok, this is earth-shattering, but, DHK, your posts are starting to convince me....

In practical terms, DHK, how does your wife apply this?

Does she cover her head in private Bible studies? When you pray as a family before meals?

If you have children, does she veil herself when teaching the children from the Bible?

What about other instances...in public prayer during worship? During the Lord's table?

Can you be specific on the practical application of this?

Your sister in Christ,
Beth

 

[EdSutton]

Here is what I've always preached...
I may not know how "long, long is".... But I do know how "short, short is"!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to the Baptist Board.

Ed

 

[DHK]

Ok, this is earth-shattering, but, DHK, your posts are starting to convince me....

In practical terms, DHK, how does your wife apply this?

Does she cover her head in private Bible studies? When you pray as a family before meals?

My wife carries a scarf which she uses a head covering. Paul was addressing the church. The context is in the church. The principle is that she should have her head covered to show submission to her husband; or the other way around--that the husband has authority over the wife even as Christ has authority over the husband. It is a sign of authority: the husband's authority or the wife's submission to that authority.
Paul goes on to give a few other reasons, but that is the primary reason, and the reason that he starts the chapter with.

If you have children, does she veil herself when teaching the children from the Bible?

What about other instances...in public prayer during worship? During the Lord's table?

Just during the services of the church, which would include prayer and the Lord's Table. Teaching children at home is one thing. Teaching children at church, I think she would wear it. Remember they didn't have children's ministries in the first century. I think it would set an example for the children. The practice isn't forced. It must come by conviction.

Can you be specific on the practical application of this?

Your sister in Christ,
Beth

I am not sure what you mean by this question. The practical application is given in 1Cor. 11:1-16. We may not understand all the reasons Paul gives. Some of them are purely symbolic, just as baptism is purely symbolic. Why be baptized? Simply because our Lord commands it, and that is all. The application is only in the church. The context refers specifcally to the church services. Parachurch activities would be matters of soul liberty, depending on how far a person is convicted about the practice. But the context is the practice of the churches.

1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

The meaning here is that Paul does not have time to be argumentative or contentious with those that disagree with him. He has set forth God's truth. It is the practice of all the churches of God. It is not our custom to be contentious or argue about doctrine that God has already inspired. So take your contentious spirit and go somewhere else. It is the strongest argument yet, and the one that Paul concludes with.

 

[Beth]

Thank you

Thank you, DHK!