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Halloween
- Thread starter CTTYaz
- Start date
I'm not sure what this has to do with Baptist History, but since you asked.....
From the Celtic traditions October 31 is known as Samhain and means "summers end". It marked the end of summer and the beginning of winter.
It's the night when the old god dies and the crone goddess mourns him deeply. Hence where the witch and the black cauldron come from. As she stirs the pot all the dead souls return to her cauldron of life, death and rebirth to await reincarnation. Much of the pagan religions have to do with reincarnation.
Carving pumkins/veggies was done to protect people from the evil that was believed to exist, this night was believed to be a time when the veil between the living and dead was very thin and easier for spirits to get through. (Us Christians have the Lord God to protect us) It is still a custom in Ireland to place candles in the windows on Samhain night and leave plates of food for the visiting spirits. (Hmmm, I wonder if this is why people leave Santa cookies?)
The idea of trick or treat comes from a pagan prankster called the Lord of Misrule, a personification of the spirit of fun and hedonism who invades creating pleasant havoc and reminding us that even in the face of death, there is reason to rejoice (remember this is about reincarnation)
Wearing a mask for halloween? Note that the tradition may be from a form of "sympathetic magic" and later a way to hide a witches identity as they traveled to covens.
There are many more symbols and traditions associated with this day that I won't take the time to go into.
As to whether the day is evil or whether we, as Christians and new creations, should take part in it is between that person and God. I personally will not recognize the day because I don't think there is any way to "redeem" it. There is nothing even remotely Christian about it.
So you want your kids to have candy, go play games, dress up in costumes? Fine, do it on another day....one far removed from Oct 31. There are plenty of opportunities in this country to go to a festival and play games, have a costume party or even a box of costumes to play with during the year and candy is always available.
This is one day out of the year we need to stand up and be separate.
And just to let you know, we do not partake in many of the traditional Christmas and Easter celebrations either. If you want more info, I can explain our position.
Blessings,
suzanne
[ October 25, 2002, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: suzanne ]
From the Celtic traditions October 31 is known as Samhain and means "summers end". It marked the end of summer and the beginning of winter.
It's the night when the old god dies and the crone goddess mourns him deeply. Hence where the witch and the black cauldron come from. As she stirs the pot all the dead souls return to her cauldron of life, death and rebirth to await reincarnation. Much of the pagan religions have to do with reincarnation.
Carving pumkins/veggies was done to protect people from the evil that was believed to exist, this night was believed to be a time when the veil between the living and dead was very thin and easier for spirits to get through. (Us Christians have the Lord God to protect us) It is still a custom in Ireland to place candles in the windows on Samhain night and leave plates of food for the visiting spirits. (Hmmm, I wonder if this is why people leave Santa cookies?)
The idea of trick or treat comes from a pagan prankster called the Lord of Misrule, a personification of the spirit of fun and hedonism who invades creating pleasant havoc and reminding us that even in the face of death, there is reason to rejoice (remember this is about reincarnation)
Wearing a mask for halloween? Note that the tradition may be from a form of "sympathetic magic" and later a way to hide a witches identity as they traveled to covens.
There are many more symbols and traditions associated with this day that I won't take the time to go into.
As to whether the day is evil or whether we, as Christians and new creations, should take part in it is between that person and God. I personally will not recognize the day because I don't think there is any way to "redeem" it. There is nothing even remotely Christian about it.
So you want your kids to have candy, go play games, dress up in costumes? Fine, do it on another day....one far removed from Oct 31. There are plenty of opportunities in this country to go to a festival and play games, have a costume party or even a box of costumes to play with during the year and candy is always available.
This is one day out of the year we need to stand up and be separate.
And just to let you know, we do not partake in many of the traditional Christmas and Easter celebrations either. If you want more info, I can explain our position.
Blessings,
suzanne
[ October 25, 2002, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: suzanne ]
stubbornkelly
New Member
suzanne, I disagree. Of course, it all depends on whether or not you make a distinction between the way Halloween is observed by most people in the US and the celebration of Samhain as a religious holiday.
If you cannot or do not make a distinction, I can see how your statement may make sense, but if you do (and I would be tempted to wager that most Americans do), one can certainly observe the day as a secular occasion.
But if your way is the case, I guess I should tell something to my non-Christian friends who give gifts at Christmastime. I would doubt that the Jewish and pagan and even atheist friends I have that do that are actually celebrating Christmas as a religious holiday.
If you cannot or do not make a distinction, I can see how your statement may make sense, but if you do (and I would be tempted to wager that most Americans do), one can certainly observe the day as a secular occasion.
But if your way is the case, I guess I should tell something to my non-Christian friends who give gifts at Christmastime. I would doubt that the Jewish and pagan and even atheist friends I have that do that are actually celebrating Christmas as a religious holiday.
MissAbbyIFBaptist
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I don't observe it period. In my opinion it's a pagan holiday. My church has a Fall Festival where the week before halloween [usualy on a sat. night.] and we let the kids dress up as long as it's not a devel/witch/bloody/monster/skeleton type thing. We have a big supper of hotdogs, spagetti, or chicken stew. The kids can play games, join the hayride, have a cake walk, and throw wet sponges at the deacons {substitute dunking booth}.
As for it's origination, I'm really not sure but I think it had to do with some type of paganistic {is that a word?!
} holiday.
~Abby
As for it's origination, I'm really not sure but I think it had to do with some type of paganistic {is that a word?!
} holiday.~Abby
The pagan origins of the day were to ward off evil spirits, not attract them, so I'm not sure why it's considered any more of a bad thing that the origins of Christmas Day and Easter, whose origins areequally paganistic.
C'mon folks, let's not give Satan any more credit than he deserves. Doing so only makes hm stronger.
C'mon folks, let's not give Satan any more credit than he deserves. Doing so only makes hm stronger.
Our church is having a "Holy Ghost Party" this Sat. night.
I take the grandkids to friends and church members houses to trick or treat and my wife hands out candy at our house.
Sorry, I don't view this as celebrating a pagan holiday. It's all in the context.
A lot of things Satan made for evil, God can turn to good. It's a great witnessing time of year.
I take the grandkids to friends and church members houses to trick or treat and my wife hands out candy at our house.
Sorry, I don't view this as celebrating a pagan holiday. It's all in the context.
A lot of things Satan made for evil, God can turn to good. It's a great witnessing time of year.
You are correct, Kelly, in that there are holidays that can be viewed as either secular or religious...Christmas, Easter, Halloween, even Thanksgiving. No one mistakes Jewish or Muslim holy days for anything but religious.
Because this is a Christian board, the context of my comments are religious in nature. The question is really about Christians living in the world and how our lives are to glorify God and bring the good news to those who do not know it. We all know that non-Christians also celebrate the holidays. It's time for Christians to assess what they are doing and why.
Most of the excuses I hear from Christians in regards to festivities and celebrations have to do with the general culture in the U.S. and a very telling sign that it's getting harder and harder to distinquish Christians from the world. We are entertainment oriented and will fight and kick before giving up our self-gratification and pleasure-seeking.
My reason for going into detail about Samhain is that some Christians may not know much about it.
The choice is ultimately between God and them.
Because this is a Christian board, the context of my comments are religious in nature. The question is really about Christians living in the world and how our lives are to glorify God and bring the good news to those who do not know it. We all know that non-Christians also celebrate the holidays. It's time for Christians to assess what they are doing and why.
Most of the excuses I hear from Christians in regards to festivities and celebrations have to do with the general culture in the U.S. and a very telling sign that it's getting harder and harder to distinquish Christians from the world. We are entertainment oriented and will fight and kick before giving up our self-gratification and pleasure-seeking.
My reason for going into detail about Samhain is that some Christians may not know much about it.
The choice is ultimately between God and them.
If you lived in a situation with withcraft being practiced in a field nearby I am sure you would have no doubt of the dangers that faced our children with what "appears" to be fun. As you can imagine, I take halloween seriosly and will not celebrate or observe it. It does not matter how we view the issue, Satan gets the greatest fun
yours,Jon
yours,Jon
Yes, ignoring him gives him a foothold too. Besides, are you saying there are never any other discussions or topics that don't seemingly give Satan more credit than he deserves?
As far as the origins warding off evil spirits...you didn't read my post, did you?
And you're correct...Christmas and Easter have pagan origins, too. They are a little more redeemable because of what they represent to Christians, but only if Christians are willing to forsake the worlds ideas of how to celebrate it. But, no...we want our cake and eat it too. Besides it's only a little compromise. Certainly it's not a time of sacrifice and striving for holiness
As baptists we dont usually go in for celebrating saints days, and for good reason.However, isnt it strange that there is so much hype for Satans day(halloween) yet never a mention that the following day (1st nov.) is known to some as "All Saints Day". Where is our perspective when we give more thought to something that has clear evil beginnings?
I can't recall ever celebrating Hall'o'ween in England. In the Church of England, we did celebrate All Soul's Day on the same date. I believe the two events were brought together originally by the church, as were Christmas and Easter, to make a pagan day Christian.
On the carving of pumpkins, this started by the Irish immigrants to the USA. In Ireland they carved turnips. They found pumpkins much easier to carve in America.
At our house, we always handed out sweets to the knockers along with tracts for kiddies. I guess it was sort of a compromise. If we looked hard enough, I believe we could find something pagan in every nook of modern society.
Cheers,
Jim
On the carving of pumpkins, this started by the Irish immigrants to the USA. In Ireland they carved turnips. They found pumpkins much easier to carve in America.
At our house, we always handed out sweets to the knockers along with tracts for kiddies. I guess it was sort of a compromise. If we looked hard enough, I believe we could find something pagan in every nook of modern society.
Cheers,
Jim
What a hoot! I'm roaring!
So what's wrong with handing out Gospel tracts along with the candy you hand out?
Little kids don't know all the details, they just know they dress up like fairies or Barney & go door to door & get candy.
Personally I enjoy seeing the kids. And I enjoyed taking my child when he was young. It's one time in suburbia where the streets come alive with neighbors and laughter and nice policement & firefighters handing out candy & popcorn balls.
We can choose to be a light for Jesus or choose to shut ourselves away in our homes.
Okay, I really will log off this time....
Jim1999, that was interesting that you all don't recognize the 31st.
I enjoy giving out candy and doing magic tricks for the kids that come to the door. If this were a day where everyone knelt down to some pagan God and worshipped it, the of course, I wouldn't be part of it. But this is as much a pagan ritual as Christmas or Easter. Just the Catholics stuck some of our Christian days of importance onto the obvious winter solstice of Dec 25. (the shortest day of the year).
I will dress up as Merlin the Magician this year and my wife will be a witch. We will entertain children looking for candy and no one will worship Satan over it. To fear such trivial things is a sign of weak faith. It is superstitious fears that equates our belief of something "real" with nonsense like witches and ghosts... things that don't really exist. And I also never heard of Satan claiming a holiday on earth.
I enjoy giving out candy and doing magic tricks for the kids that come to the door. If this were a day where everyone knelt down to some pagan God and worshipped it, the of course, I wouldn't be part of it. But this is as much a pagan ritual as Christmas or Easter. Just the Catholics stuck some of our Christian days of importance onto the obvious winter solstice of Dec 25. (the shortest day of the year).
I will dress up as Merlin the Magician this year and my wife will be a witch. We will entertain children looking for candy and no one will worship Satan over it. To fear such trivial things is a sign of weak faith. It is superstitious fears that equates our belief of something "real" with nonsense like witches and ghosts... things that don't really exist. And I also never heard of Satan claiming a holiday on earth.
Post-it,
Are you really saying that you do not think that there are people who practice witchcraft? Likewise, I disagree with your comment about Christians who avoid such things having a "weak faith." Remember the Bible tells us that we are to be in the world, but not of the world. That means that we do not have to, nor should we participate in worldly events that are rooted in paganism. Also, please tell me how dressing up as a wizard or a witch etc., enemies of God, can possibly bring glory, honor, and praise to the name of the Lord?
[ October 26, 2002, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]
We just had our annual "Trunk n Treat" last night during our AWANA youth activities. Parents round up their cars in the parking lot, open trunks and share candy with the kids. Its a safe way to share, fellowship, and have fun. Is it associated with Halloween? Welll...? maybe/maybe not.
Its been a light conversation for years in our church. Not a real controversy. Everybody has different views. In fact they are very similar to what is discussed here. Over all our church uses the time as a chance to witness to others.
Its been a light conversation for years in our church. Not a real controversy. Everybody has different views. In fact they are very similar to what is discussed here. Over all our church uses the time as a chance to witness to others.