Halloween

I dont understand what all the controversy is halloween is a pagan holiday and anything that does not exalt GOD should not be in our life. At our church we are meeting for supper then the adults and children are going to use satans lies against him and go SOUL winning. We are praying to be able to put a seed of Jesus in peoples heart instead of leting satan have his way and decieve people

 

Ignoring arguments over what Hallowe'en started as, let's look at it today. What is the focus here in America? Death. Haunted houses.

Jon, we did have a horse shot a number of times with a BB gun several years ago on Hallowe'en. We spent the next day and about a hundred dollars with the vet picking them out of the poor animal. We also needed to stitch his leg where, panicked, he had tried to break through a fence.

A year later, on November 1, the local high school discovered about thirty dead dogs and cats in its garbage bins.

A few years later a cat was drowned in the school swimming pool and found Nov. 1.

The little kids in cute costumes have to be careful of razor blades and poison in their 'treats.'

The theme is death.

Anyone who participates is encouraging this 'holiday'. Refusal to participate is, in my personal opinion, the only sane thing any person can do, Christian or not!

Unless, of course, you are into celebrating death, evil spirits, and victimizing people.

Hallowe'en has NOTHING to offer in regard to glorifying God -- the God of life, love, and redemption, which cancels out death.

 

A Christian is no more pagan for trick or treating on Halloween than a pagan is Christian for exchanging gifts on Christmas day.

What comes out of the heart defiles or justifies a person. Not whether or not they dress up on Oct.31 and visit some neighbours to have their cheeks pinched, be told their cute, and receive a treat (which is basically Halloween for my children)

Just my opinion. In the end, we must be true to our conscience. I think Romans 14 applies here.

 

Thank you Bible boy, Mickes and Helen for your replies. Beyond these people Im not seeing any response to vital questions that have been asked(forgive me if I missed any one out)Look back the thread to get it in full, but here is a summary:

1)The media have reported that animals(e.g. horses) have been attacked for the purposes of black magic rituals and sacrifices related to the Halloween.This not a new practice and goes back to its origins as well as today. Helen has indicated this is also happening in USA. Animal lovers do you not wish to object to such a practice?

2)Adults have been caught practicing blackmagic rituals on children as part of the ancient practice of Halloween.Bibleboy has indicated that this is happening in USA as well as Scotland. Those of you who love children, do you not wish to object to such vile practices of Halloween?

3) For some of you this may be new information. Does it not effect your position regarding encouraging children to go innocently into some thing that may develop into more than eating nice candy?

yours, Jon

 

Dear UltraWebmaster,

Praise God through Christ in all His enlightening knowledge.

Thank you for asking this question because it troubles Christians everywhere, and God wants us to stand grounded and assured not bewildered and double-minded.

Halloween sprung from Samhain, the autumn festival celebrated by the ancient Celtic people who lived in the area now known as Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France. In the AD 400s , St. Patrick witnessed to the Celts and converted them to Christianity.

Traditions harden the heart, so the Celts could did not let go of the customs connected to Samhain even after their conversion. To compromise this disputable matter, the Catholic Church began a new festival (All Saints' Day) for celebration around the same time as Samhain. This supposedly villified any discomfort with the Celtic Christian traditions: Let what you consider evil be spoken of as good.

The day before All Saints' Day, which normally occurs around November 1 nowadays, was called All Hallowed Evening which eventually contracted to Hallowe'en, our familiar modern day word.

Is this a sort of evil day? By no means! Men put the evil in Hallowe'en. Hallowe'en does not put the evil in men.

"One man's rubbish is another man's treasure." Whatever you do on this day, make sure you live to God through Jeusus Christ, but if anything distresses your brother, then you must refrain.

In this case what you consider as good will be spoken of as evil; do not do anything to cause your brother to stumble. Otherwise, you do not love your brother. A man who does not love his brother and look out for his well-being, does not love God.

On the whole, live for God in all that you do. Do you believe that dressing up as witches, monsters, ghosts, and goblins glorifies God? Grace and peace to you. How about trick or treating? Carving pumpkins? Then for you it glorifies God.

Make up your mind to stand sure of what you feel: "Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned" (Romans 14:22-23), for what does not come from faith in God through Christ is sin. If you do things that you approve of but still doubt, then doing those things does not come from faith; that is sin.

In the end, remember who Christ is and act like Him in everything, for He is perfect; we are not.

If you stumble in any way, confess your mistakes to God, and He will cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

Pray to God for peace in your heart, and obey what Jesus taught, and trust in God's truth. After this, you have done all He asks you to do.

May God Bless you this October 31 because everyday--no matter the historical background--belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ for the glory of the Father, ours and his.

Amen.

[ October 30, 2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Jamal5000 ]

 

What a very small minority of insaniacs do on Halloween has nothing to do with my children dressing up as a clown or puppy and going to the neighbours houses for treats.

Yes, I am concerned about the abuse of animals, and certainly about my children. But there is no logical link between the habits of a relatively few feakish individuals on Halloween and those of most children going door to door through their neighbourhood. Your reasoning is a classic case of non sequitar. Again, to use an example, it would be like a family of atheists refusing to exchange gifts at Christmas or taking days off work because many people worship Jesus Christ on that day. As Christians, we generally view people who think that way as illogical, since exchanging gifts or taking days off work doesn't equal or involve one in the worship of Christ. I suggest the argument works both ways.

However, I respect those who choose not to observe Halloween. They must be true to their conscience, and I certainly wouldn't want to offend them. I am careful in my own church with respect to whom I share my own practices with for that very reason. I offer my own thoughts simply as my own observations and reasoning.

 

OK, what then is the focus of Hallowe'en for Christians?

For non-Christians?

What is the focus of Christmas for Christians?

For non-Christians?

Personally, I see a pretty big difference here.

For although the focus of Christmas for non-Christians may be parties and gifts and dressing up and such, it is NOT death!

The focus of Hallowe'en is death.

And while the Christians may not focus on that, they do not have any specific function for this holiday which is Christian, unlike Christmas.

I wish folks would stop comparing the two!

 

I agree Helen. The fact that non christians identify with a feast related to the God of love is hardly grounds for Christians to identify with a feast of one who advocates hate. The two hardly equate.
yours, Jon

 

Hi Helen and John,

Just to be clear, I am not equating Christmas with Halloween. I am only trying to point out that trying to make a connection between what pagans do on Halloween and what someone else does is a non sequitar - in the same way that we cannot make a connection between what Christians do on Christmas and what atheists do. The significance of the day transcends the day, and is in the actions and attitude of the observer. Because some act in pagan ways on Halloween does not mean that to go out for treats is in some way pagan or a participation in paganism.

In your own mind you man not be able to differentiate between Halloween as pagan and Halloween as a night of innocent fun. Others can. It is like one Corinthian eating meat offered to idols and not being able to differentiate between a piece of meat as meat and a piece of meat as an idol sacrifice. They ought not to eat. Another can differentiate, and they may partake. One must not offend the other, and each must "be persuaded in [their] own mind".

God Bless.

 

Please also keep in mind that our witness to others means a great deal. That includes our children. At the very, very least, for children, Hallowe'en is a time to grab everything for yourself that you can.

I'm not sure that is the message we want them to get from us, is it?

I might also mention that a good many children are frightened of this time with the masks and costumes. I didn't know that until some of my children were older, and they told me how 'when I was little' the evening was actually frightening for them and it was only the idea of a bag full of candy that would get them outside where people in scary masks were walking around, and pumpkins were carved into scary faces and such. We used to do Hallowe'en, you see, until I thought about it more and learned about it more.

My witness to the world and to my children is more important than costumes and candy.

In the meantime, if anyone ever sees some religious Hallowe'en cards extolling God or Jesus Christ, let me know, OK?

 

Hi Helen,

I agree that our witness to the world and our children is important. I just don't believe that letting your kids go out for candy is a bad witness.

In fact, our "witness" of not letting our kids go out may be more negative than letting them go out. Most people in the world look upon Christians who teach that Halloween is evil as being strange or weird. No offence to you at all Helen, I am sure you are a very nice and sensible Christian woman. However, if we are worried about what the world will think if we let our kids go out for Halloween - most likely they will think nothing at all. If we don't let them, many will think we are strange. Not holy, or godly, but strange. This is not a positive testimony.

With our kids, forbidding them from going can also have a negative impact. They may be thought strange by their peers. They may resent not being able to go out. It is hard enough to live the Christian life in the world without adding taboos where God hasn't placed them.

I realize that many kids are not allowed to go out, and there is never ever a problem. By the same token, many are allowed to go, and there is never a problem. Also, the lesson doesn't have to be "grab all you can", any more than that needs to be the lesson at a birthday party we have for our kids.

I have appreciated our dialogue, Helen. God Bless.

 

Ooops.

Sorry Helen. I just read the post and the way I concluded it might sound like I was trying to end the discussion by getting in the last word. That was not the case. I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed our discussion.

 

It's not a crime to be different. In fact that is a lesson we need to teach early -- to be willing to stand up for what is right instead of running with the herd.

We are told, as Christians, to be ready to answer for the hope that we have. If our lives are not different from the rest, then no one is going to ask any questions for us to answer.

I have six children, now ages 18-29. With the first three we did the trick or treat thing. By the time we got to the last three, we knew better. And you know something, they didn't mind.

Worried that they would feel left out or deprived or something, the first year we opted out of Hallowe'en I gave them each five dollars to spend on the candy they wanted the day after Hallowe'en when it was half price. They went nuts -- had a ball.

The next year I asked if they wanted to do the same thing again. The unanimous answer was "No, Mom, we got too sick from all that last year!"

Hallowe'en was not a problem after that -- until they saw the darker side of it with our horse being shot and then all the dead animals at school.

Those things don't happen as 'part of the holiday' on Christmas or Easter!

If we don't teach our kids it's ok to be different, what we are teaching them by default is that truth is truth by majority and one should run with the herd.

All I'm trying to do is get anyone reading this to THINK. What are we teaching our children when we participate in Hallowe'en?

And yes, by the way, it matters a great deal what others think of us. That reflects the effectiveness of our witness in the world. Are we the same as the world, or are we not?

 

Yes, we should be different from the world. But the difference that is effective as witness is not whether or not we let our kids go out for Halloween. That might make us different, but not godly or effective witnesses.

The difference we should exemplify is that we should be marked as those who love God with all our hearts, and love our neighbour as ourselves. The difference should be seen by the fruit of the Spirit - love, joy, peace etc. being present in our lives.

What, ultimately, do we want to say to the world with our lifestyle? That Christians are people who don't let their kids go out for Halloween? Or that Christians are people who love God supremely, and their neighbour as themselves?

Our distinction from the world shouldn't be tied to our scruples. It should be tied to more significant things than that.

 

I really dont understand all this about being a witness of the God of love by practicing halloween. How does that happen by dressing up as witches (enemies of God) or symbols of death(eg. ghosts,dracula etc)? What about the issue of threats that come to those who will not treat, is this consistent with the christian ethic? Where is the symbols of love and life? Take note also that the practicing of blackmagic and witchcraft is wider than you appear to be aware.

What I could understand is giving a positive fun time to children on 31st oct. without the symbolism that relates to a satanic feast. What I could understand is for adult christians using the day to focus on a positive aspect of christian faith and/or a stronger prayer emphasis.
None of these things seem to be mentioned on here when assuming we witness by celebrating halloween!

Incidently, my children's ages range from 11 years to 28 years.........and none of them would thank you for suggesting they ought to celebrate halloween in any form.
yours,Jon

 

You have GOT to be kidding!

[ October 30, 2002, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

I think Halloween is a holiday that promotes gluttony in children and sexual looseness in adults, and Christians are probably better off washing their hands of it. I've declared Oct 31 National Bowling Day and will celebrate tonight by going bowling with some friends. Who's with me?

Eric

 

Jon, "trick OR treat"...hmmmm....sounds like extortion to me!

Sorry, Eric B, we won't be able to go bowling. We're leaving tonight for a camp meeting in Indiana. This is truly a CAMP meeting...we will be sleeping ON THE GROUND IN A TENT!!! Did I hear someone mention that it's supposed to snow up there? I'm not sure if we Southerners can handle that kind of weather! But we are looking forward to wonderful time of fellowship with those dear folks at Old Paths Baptist Church in Campbellsburg! Well, gotta go pack now...see y'all next week!

[ October 31, 2002, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Farmer's Wife ]

 

Hi Jon,

I am not suggesting that we witness to the God of love by practicing Halloween. I am saying that we do not witness to the God of love by not letting our kids go out either. Refraining from letting our kids dress up and collect treats on Halloween does not witness to others in any effective way. If you think that it does, please explain how unbelievers are witnessed to in an effective manner by a Christian who doesn't let their kids go out on Halloween?

What I am saying is that our witness is tied to more significant things than refraining from letting our kids go out on October 31. What makes us different as Christians is that we are marked by love for God and neighbour, not by whether or not we let our kids go out for treats on Halloween. The only people who really care about whether or not kids go out for treats on Halloween are generally other Christians with scruples in that area - not non-Christians.

By the way, my kids don't dress up as witches or death symbols. They don't threaten people who don't give them candy. It simply does not follow that because some people do these things it is somehow wrong for others to go out and collect treats in a way that is appropriate. Isn't this the old guilt by association fallacy?

Helen, when I said that our distinction from the world should be tied to something more significant than our scruples, I was using the word scruples to refer to "gray areas" among Christians. This would include Halloween, drinking alcohol, playing cards, dancing, going to movies etc. When something is clearly wrong (i.e. sexual immorality), we should definately be different in that area. In the other areas I have called scruples, unbelievers generally just scratch their heads over the fact Christians debate these areas at all.

Whatever you do tonight, have a blessed evening.

 

I'm curious, how do you all think 1Cor 10 ties in to this issue (if at all)?

1Cor 10:13-33

14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread. 18Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? 20Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lords table and of the table of demons. 22Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
23All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 24Let no one seek his own, but each one the others well-being. 25Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience sake; 26for the earth is the Lords, and all its fullness. 27If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience sake. 28But if anyone says to you, This was offered to idols, do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience sake; for the earth is the Lords, and all its fullness. 29Conscience, I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another mans conscience? 30But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks? 31Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Eric