Halloween

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
I think the misunderstanding here is what Halloween is really about. Halloween is an evil holiday plain and simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. Halloween may have pagan origins but it is little more than an evening devoted to specific activities.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Our culture has activities with which we "celebrate" this holiday. Now I will grant you that most people that celebrate it are ignorant or unconcerned with it's origins, but those are the origins like it or not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And, like it or not, the origins of organized athletic contests have very similar pagan roots. Yet, I hear few calls from the "anti-Halloween" crowd clamoring for Christians to avoid participation in sports.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Now, we as Christians must decide what we are to do with this holiday, since it celebrates things that are contradictory to the Word of God.

1) We can do as we did with other Pagan Holidays and make a Christian Holiday to celebrate in it's stead, but our society is so in love with the traditional "evilness" of this one and most likely will not give it up on a national level.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, and Christmas is view, on the national level as a holy day? Puh-lease. On the national level, Christmas is little more than an opportunity to sell and consume. We give one another gifts (around that big old pagan symbol of fertility: the xmas tree) and call ourselves holy.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 2) We can opt to not celebrate it at all. I don't see God being upset with us for not partaking in activities that derived from evil and wicked religions.[/quote\

You mean like putting up Christmas trees, engaging in harvest festivals, using the current names of the days of the week, using the current names of many of the months?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
(and nonlegalistic Christians).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, see, that is what really gripes me. You call us folks with standards legalists . . . when in fact that is a mis-use of the word.

A legalist is one who insists that folks are accepted by following laws and rules . . . that God will accept someone for their efforts and "keeping" or "not keeping" certain rituals and traditions. I do not believe that anyone here has suggested that in the least, and so far as I am aware, everyone who has posted on this topic believes that God accepts us only because of our faith in His Son.

At least if you're gonna call people names, call them one that properly applies to them!

 

Why must so many Christians divide the world into Christian or secular. You are not going to go to hell if you go trick or treating. It bothers me that Baptists are the worst about this.

And someone mentioned Christmas. Christmas was not originally a winter holiday. It was switched from summer to winter to compete with the most popular Pagan holiday of the time. Give me a break people and lighten up. Some of you are turning your children into religeuos nuts.

 

I have to post again on this one. Kids who dress up and go door to door asking for candy do not turn into Satanists. Even those who dress up as ghosts and goblins are pretty much immune from the hounds of hell if they stick to the acquisition of candy and not so much concentrate to satanic rituals, etc, etc. To kids it is just fun. They get candy, they get to stay out after dark, they get to dress up like some mutant ninja turtle or who knows what. Only the adults put in their mind that it is "of the devil". Don't turn your kids into freaks. Let them be kids and have fun. There is nothing satanic about the modern version of Halloween.

 

It is a fine line to walk mike, but i agree to a certian extent. There is still alot of garbage out there that we have to make sure kids do not entertain in their thoughts, such as some of the horror movies out there. I also would probably not want my kid (if/when i have kids) to dress up as something like satan, or an imp, or a dead person.

Until Next Post,
Adam

 

Typical symbols of Halloween .....











Oh Yah... looks like something acceptable to christianity.

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: katie ]

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: katie ]

 

Thats my opinion, and I'm sticking too it,,,,,,,


same as all of you will....


no matter what that opinion might be.

 

You have that right as well to your opinion, but it's only that, an opinion keep that in mind.

Blessings,

Sue

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I guess I don't see doing the Harvest thing a celebration of something wrong. I see it as a seasonal change from summer to fall and getting prepared for Thanksgiving, but to be celebrating anything wrong, nahh. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So a night over a friends house to have fun with some tarot cards or a wicca board is ok?
I could spell uiga, wigah or whatever so I said wicca board. Hehehe!

 

I dressed up as a kid and went trick or treating and let me tell ya, I love God like crazy and desire his will in my life.

You are right Mike, to kids it is just fun and they get candy on top of that. I think we tend to get carried away about the do's and don'ts, which yes, is legalistic and believe me I've seen plenty of legalism on this board in some heavy chunks.

Sue

 

Not opinions . . . standards based on the origins of Halloween and the desire not to associate with it. There is a big difference in an opinion and a standard for living.

 

Jonathan,

Sorry, I don't have a sermon for ya...after all I am a woman, I can't preach!

I did not say that dressing up is bad or giving out or receiving candy is bad, and you know that. I still have no desire to dress up as Satan and give this generation the idea that evil is "fun and harmless".

I don't see why those who just "have to participate" get so offended if we want to abstain. It's like we HAVE to conform to your standard whether or not it glorifies God. No thanks!

This is NOT an opinion my dear friends...but fact!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2 Cor 6:14-16
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and
wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a
believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between
the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
17
"Therefore come out from them and be separate", says the Lord.
NIV
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Can you show me where the Bible says it acceptable if it is just "for fun"? Can you show me where Jesus actually particpated in things that glorified satan and his dominions just so he could witness? Can you show me in the Word of God where it is ok? Again, being among them is one thing, being one of them is another!

I do find it ironic that the people dressing up thier kid as whatnots say that I am the one turning my kids into "freaks".

Try and stand up for what you think is right and you are "legalistic", show someone where they are wrong scripturally and you are "judgemental".

Suggestion: Want to be a light to the dark world, then here is the solution. You must spend more time in the Word then you do in the World so that you can be equipped to be the light that shines.(Matt 5:16). Wanting to be a witness is a good thing, but You can't be a beacon if you haven't the fuel to light the fire.

~Lorelei

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
Try and stand up for what you think is right and you are "legalistic", show someone where they are wrong scripturally and you are "judgemental". . . .Wanting to be a witness is a good thing, but You can't be a beacon if you haven't the fuel to light the fire.~Lorelei<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woo-hoo! Preach it Lorelei!

Oops . . . sorry, but I thought you said you wasn't gonna preach cause you're a woman! LOL . . .

Seriously though, those are good points.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
Thats my opinion, and I'm sticking too it,,,,,,,


same as all of you will....


no matter what that opinion might be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya never know Katie! In another thread I just showed where I have changed my mind because of posts here and that is only the first time!

Keeper,

Thanks! I doubt everyone will agree with me but ya know! And thanks for reminding me 'bout that preachin' thing!! See...I wasn't really preaching preaching, I was sorta just talking but it sounded like I was preaching, but I wasn't REALLY preaching. *gulp*
~Lorelei

*hides behind her soapbox*

 

1Co 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of
peace, as in all churches of the saints.
And not just in this particular thread!

 

L said
"Can you show me where the Bible says it acceptable if it is just "for fun"? Can you show me where Jesus actually particpated in things that glorified satan and his dominions just so he could witness? Can you show me in the Word of God where it is ok? Again, being among them is one thing, being one of them is another!"

The whole issue is where do we as parents draw the lines. We tend to get irratated by people who draw lines in different places then we do. For each person who totally stays away from Halloween I could find a place where they draw a looser line then I do on someother issue (music,TV or what not)
We do let our kids trick or treat but not dressed up as something demonish, that is where we draw the line. Let us be in prayer and draw our lines based on what God puts in our hearts. We don't need to critize eachother on an issue like this, there are much more serious things we can critize eachother about.
L. just as a side note it isn't avoiding doing things that keeps us from being part of the world, it's our heart and actions while doing them that matters(this does not apply to stealing or obvious breaking of the law)

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KeeperOfMyHome:


Now, see, that is what really gripes me. You call us folks with standards legalists . . . when in fact that is a mis-use of the word.

A legalist is one who insists that folks are accepted by following laws and rules . . . that God will accept someone for their efforts and "keeping" or "not keeping" certain rituals and traditions. I do not believe that anyone here has suggested that in the least, and so far as I am aware, everyone who has posted on this topic believes that God accepts us only because of our faith in His Son.

At least if you're gonna call people names, call them one that properly applies to them! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the record, I didn't call you a legalistic Christian. But a legalist would aptly describe someone who constructs arguments against the participation in one pagan holiday (Halloween) by seeks to justify participation in another (Christmas).

Perhaps the shoe doesn't fit.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
Typical symbols of Halloween .....











Oh Yah... looks like something acceptable to christianity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot to include all of those pagan fertility symbols (holly, trees, etc...) used at Christmas.

Oh Yah...I forgot, we Baptist can only take so much paganism with our holidays.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
I don't see why those who just "have to participate" get so offended if we want to abstain. It's like we HAVE to conform to your standard whether or not it glorifies God. No thanks!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cut you some slack since you have obviously not been reading thread very closely. This topic was generated by an individual who sounded offended that Christians actually participate in some of the Halloween activities.

It does not offend me if any believer chooses to hide during Oct. 31. I hope that I don't offend anyone else when I use Halloween as an opportunity to build relationships with evangelism in mind.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Can you show me where the Bible says it acceptable if it is just "for fun"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you show me in any of my posts where I made this claim?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Can you show me where Jesus actually particpated in things that glorified satan and his dominions just so he could witness?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you show me how, by passing out or receiving candy with the intent to evangelize, I am doing anything but glorifying God? Perhaps you missed the post discussing the pagan origins of our days of the weeks/ names of the months. I am guessing that you don't own any calendars...wouldn't want to glorify Satan would you?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Again, being among them is one thing, being one of them is another!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Being one of them"....I go to work with pagans, doesn't make me one of them. I play basketball with pagans, doesn't make me one of them. I even go to church with some pagans (what better place for pagans to be?), doesn't make me a pagan.

So if I use the tradition of giving and taking candy as a way to be a conduit of God's grace...how am I "being one of them"?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I do find it ironic that the people dressing up thier kid as whatnots say that I am the one turning my kids into "freaks".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know who has accused your children of being freaks for not going out on Halloween. This would indeed be a sorry commentary on the state of Christian fellowship.

Condemnation seems to in evidence all across the theological sprectrum in spite of Romans 8:1.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Try and stand up for what you think is right and you are "legalistic", show someone where they are wrong scripturally and you are "judgemental".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correction: try to stand up for what is right is being principled. Trying to suggest that your view for what is right is THE standard is legalism.

Oh, and whenever you are ready to show me from Scripture that I should not avail myself of every opportunity to share the good news of Christ, I am ready to engage.

I would advise that you stay away from Paul on this one however...he did have that nagging little problem with allowing folks to eat meat from Diana's butcher shop...he also had the gall to suggest that:

19
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21
to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
22
To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.
23
I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. - I Corinthians 9:19-23

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Suggestion: Want to be a light to the dark world, then here is the solution. You must spend more time in the Word then you do in the World so that you can be equipped to be the light that shines.(Matt 5:16). Wanting to be a witness is a good thing, but You can't be a beacon if you haven't the fuel to light the fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent advice but make sure that your study of the Word's doctrines do not keep you from the application of those truths. There are no Baptist monasteries for this reason.

 

Jonathan,

Um, my deepest apologies!!! I should have made some mark where my remarks to you stopped and my general remarks to the rest began.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
Jonathan,

Sorry, I don't have a sermon for ya...after all I am a woman, I can't preach!

I did not say that dressing up is bad or giving out or receiving candy is bad, and you know that. I still have no desire to dress up as Satan and give this generation the idea that evil is "fun and harmless".

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was for you! The rest of my post was geared towards the general population, not you in particular!! I was responding to those who were saying that those who abstain are "religious nuts" and "freaks". Those who said we worry too much about the do's and dont's, and it's just our opinion.

Those were not meant for you! What you are doing is a good thing! I never even meant to limit my original claim to 3 options. There are many options that we can do and it sounds like you are a great light that shines! I just think that those who abstain all together are not necessarily "wrong". Just because they don't witness that one night doesn't mean they don't witness at other times.

I do feel that you aren't cutting us a "little" slack in defining this as a pagan holiday different from others. We can take any symbol and make it what we want. You are right, about the origins, but come on, tell me the theme of this one doesn't have anyting to do with devils and their dominions? Come on..now admit it, the entire theme is witches, devils and stuff that is totally against God. That is the point. A tree can be a symbol for lots of things, a devil, well, how can you make that a symbol for good? The symbol itself is not important, just what it stands for. But otherwise, I think you and I pretty much agree. I personally don't avoid the holiday myself. My church has a veggie fest for the kids. I even give out candy. I just wanted to defend those who did abstain.

Briguy,

Thanks for the loving post! As I stated above here I was trying to defend those who abstain from being "nuts". Yeah, I got frustrated and it showed, but I still think it stands. If someone wants to call a person nuts on a christian board then they need to show some scripture proving why they are.

I agree it is our hearts and actions that count, but I do believe that we have to be grounded in the Word to do that.

Oh another point to Jonathan

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
[/qb]

Excellent advice but make sure that your study of the Word's doctrines do not keep you from the application of those truths. There are no Baptist monasteries for this reason.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believe me I do! I just get tired of being called a "legalist" because everytime I challenge someone I ask for scripture to back up thier beliefs, and yes, I get frustrated when I never get any.
I don't consider expecting a belief to line up with scripture legalistic.

I don't see how you can study the Word so much and not apply them! The more I study the more I want to do to please the Lord!! The more I want to do reach others and the more I want to share the Truth of His Word!!

Hope that clears things up!!!

~Lorelei