Halloween

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No.

In all seriousness, what do people think of the incorporation of pagan rites and traditions into our own traditions to make this more general? For instance Easter bunnies and Easter rabbits (and even the name "easter") from pagan spring fertility festivals. Trees and lights and wreaths and even the date of celebration among other things for Christmas from winter solstice celebrations. Or even the fish symbol representing the [I'm not saying here] of several fertility goddesses. We have adopted these things as our own and put our own meaning behind many of them.

I personally do not have a problem with it since we do not put the same meaning and significance into these things that they did.

 

Moderators

Please edit the above if I was not sufficiently vague. I went back to edit myself to remove all doubt, but the time limit caught me.

 

Yes! Amen!

I just wish that others would consider this when deciding on these types of issues.

 

I did an unofficial poll in my village about Hallowe'en. What did they think if I told them it had pagan origins? All, without exception, shrugged their shoulders, and said, So? It is just a fun day for the kids.

I packed sweets into little plastic bags and took them around to all the merchants. I did not see any evil grins, but I did see smiling faces and remarks such as, "How thoughtful", 'How nice" and "Thank you!" So, no evil, just plesantries all around, and everyone knows my stand on Christianity and the Bible.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Well, pagans also originated Christmas and Easter, and I'm not losing sleep over those either. But your claim that Halloween is uniquely druid is false. It's also of wiccan and other pagan origin.

Sacrifices were also part of Easter and Christmas rituals before the days were modified by Christianity.

None of the kids who came to my door today were druids. Most were either Spiderman or Cinderella.

At the founding of the country, there were no holidays at all. The founding fathers wanted none at all. They even frowned upon Christmas and Thanksgiving.

Actually, Halloween in England was quite popular, as was the celebration of Christmias for a whole season.

Since Samhain is not a real deity, then that means that this custom of going door to door is based on fictional folklore. But there are a few inaccuracies. It was thought that evil spirits would come to earth to take the sould of people on earth back to the place of the dead. So, to prevent your sould from being taken, you dressed up as an evil spirit so they wouldn't recognize you. Of course, this is mythical folklore, and we know that evil spirits dont come to earth to take sould in this manner.

Wow, that's a pretty misleading statement. Carvin faces came from the Irish, but not in the way you state. Both Irish Catholics and Protestants carved faces in turnips around the time of the harvest. At first, it was supposed to ward off evil spirits, like gargoyles iin the outside of a building. Later, it was supposed to bring good luck, like hanging a horseshoe over a door. The use of carving pumpkins is contemporary American. The Irish immigrants found that it was easier to carve faces in pumpkins, which were a plentiful fall crop. But by this time, the age of enlightenment was approaching, and people had lost their desire to adhere to superstition as having any basis in reality. Candles in pumpkins were contemporary as well. If you had treats to hand out, you put a light in your pumpkin to signal that you had treats.

Bobbing for apples was a popular secular past time in Roman times. It was done whenever someone was throwing a party, not just during holidays. It became popular in England during the fall and winter months, not because of any religious aspect, but because society was in need of indoor activities to occupy children while the adults were off socializing and drinking brandy.

Satan has nothing to do with Samhain. They're two different unrelated figures. If a Satanist is claiming to recognize Samhain, he's not a real Satanist, but more likely someon who gets off on putting harmful effects in treats.

Human or animal? You're implying that they still practice human sacrifice in an attempt to link them to the druids. There are a fair number of animal sacrifices that are reported to authorities, but most of these are the work of drunk teenagers. Satanism and wicca do not practice animal sacrifice as part of religious practice. I'm not in any way defending the religious practices, but wish to slear up that fact.

Nope. But the contemporary halloween traditions are secular in nature, and have nothing to do with druid practices. So I have nothing to fear.

 

Hey!, no fair, I have been gone all day and didn't get to get in on the Halloween fun. First of all, no Christian has any business celebrating Halloween. Not because of its origins, or Druids, or Chick Tracks, or because you mother didn't like it. But, because witches are antiChristian, the Devil is antiChristian, Seances are occultic, and ANYTHING that tells other people that you don't think these things are all that bad and kind of fun to "play" with, is just the height of stupidity. We spend 364 days a year telling our loved ones how bad sin is and then this one night we tell them, "Well, it's not really so bad, so let's have some harmless fun with it." You wouldn't let you 12 year old daughter go out dressed as a hooker and tell her to have fun "acting the part". Which is worse a hooker or the Devil? (rhetorical) So, why let her dress in some occult manner and tell her to have fun with it? I like costume parties, bobbing for apples, eating candy, and all kinds of fun things that also happen at the same time as Halloween. Why not have these fun activities in March or August when it does not down play the seriousness of demonic activity. Satan isn't funny or fun or to be taken lightly.

 

You are missing the point. None of these things are associated with Hallowe'en as it is "celebrated" to-day. It is just a fun day for kiddies and adults alike.

So often orthodoxy, which should be a very positive thing, is turned into this evil negative giant and people can't hurdle that negativity. Turn it into a positive, and benefit in the name of the Lord.

Just as we leave the social gospel to those of the liberal persuasion and miss out on that other commandment of our Lord Jesus Christ. We do not abrogate a positive because another group has captured its essence.. When a football is fumbled, don't kick it. Pick the ball up and run with it.

We always seem to be against something, and if we can't find something legitimate, we will fabricate it.

Cheers,

Jim

 

So Jail-minister,

Do you honor the pantheon of false gods when you name one of the days of the week...

Sunday - Day of the Sun.
Monday - Day of thr Moon.
Tuesday - Zeus Day.
Wednesday - Woden's Day.
Thursday - Thor's Day.
Friday - Friden's Day.
Saturday - Saturn's Day.

Exodus 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

HankD

 

I am curious as to how Mr. Jailminister will respond to this to see if he will apply to himself the same strict parameters that he so readily applies to those of us he considers to be lesser Christians than him.

 

The Gods of the dead were Gwynn ap Nudd or if you preferred Arawn

SO Jailminster; first Jack Chick has posted, and thus caused you to post an error Samhain is not a deity, spirit, nor entity to which sacrifices were made

The word Samhain means summer's end. (Sam + Fuin = Samhain). - this is due to the pronounciation of the word. enjoy

I believe modern Halloween has some useful qualities about it - but the church does not care to capitalize on them.

 

Are you referring to the wiccan variety, or the broomstick riding ones that turn themselves into black cats? The latter is an invention of Medieval folklore.

Druids and Wiccans don't believe in a devil.

Seances are not a part of Halloween traditions.

Except that the things you listed are either artificial creations of folklore, or are not a part of Happoween tradition.

No, but I did let her dress as a Care Bear and tell her to act the part.

Me too.

Well, I'd personally love it if we celebrated the Christmas season all year round, but that would downplay the season. Many of the traditions which we now center on Halloween are secual harvest games and celebrations, and are meaningful when done in the harvest time. Let's face it. Oct 31st is a day on the calendar. It has no meaning except that which we give it.

Nor is looking for Satan under every rock. It's equally, if not moreso, dangerous to attribute anything we find questionable to Satan. Doing so simply gives Satan credit for something which he does not deserve, which thus gives him power.

 

I am referring to the kind the Bible condemns. The fact that society has warped the image into a caricature that is more palletable to you does not make witches more acceptable to God.

What does that have to do with the fact that the Devil is antiChristian? The Devil is a long time "fun" character.

Since when? Everything occultic is brought into Halloween. That is its main characteristic.

I mentioned witches, the devil, and seances. John, you need to get out more if you don't think these are part of Halloween. The Bible speaks of all three so there is no "artificial creations of folklore".

And by doing so, you inadvertantly told her and all her friends that you do not consider all the occultic concepts associated with Halloween to be so bad.

Yes, and those aren't the problem.

The meaning we give Halloween is very heavily weighted toward the occult.

Finding Satan in Haslloween does not require a team from CSI, you only need the skill level of Deputy Barney.

I do not attribute it to Satan but I am sure he is cheering it on. As to involvement in occult practices, whether you are "playing" or taking them seriously, there is NO question about them.

 

Actually, medieval society (from which we get our contemporary idea of witches), warped witches into LESS pallatable figures, not more pallatable figures. They LITERALLY believed that witches would fly around on broomsticks. They LITERALLY believed that they were able to transform themselves into animals, like cats. The LITERALLY believed that witches worshipped Satan. Etc. Etc. None of these are real. I'm not saying that the wicca of the time was a good thing, I'm just saying that most of what we attribute to it is false.

Then, don't dress your kids up as a devil or witch. I don't allow my kids to. But while we're on the subject, the devil, being a red guy with horns and a pitchfork and tail, is also mythological, and has no bering on the biblical basis of what Satan is.

I thought you were talking about Druids and witches. Neither of these religions use seances in their traditions. You're trying to say that Halloween is bad becaise seances are evil. You're right, seances are not appropriate behavior, but they have nothing to do with Oct 31st.

Like I said, the witches we think of aren't real. They're inventions of medieval folklore. I have no idea where you get this idea that seances are "part of the halloween tradition". If I dress up as the Terminator, and call myself a witch, that doesn't make me a witch.

The bible mentions them, but applying them in the this manner is taking the Bible out of context.

No, I indavertently told her that I don't consider the claims of occultic concepts attributed by some to Halloween to be valid arguements.

NONE, I repeat, NONE of the traditions I take part in on Halloween are heavilt weighted towads the occult.

If you say "even a fool" can find the Satanic, then only a fool willl find it.

Of course, because people are going out of their way to attribute it to him. He's getting all the glory without having to lift a finger.

Putting on a costume and going door to door getting candy is not "playing" with occulting practices, unless you're Deputy Barney.

 

We asked that people not come in scary costumes for our Fall Festival and only a couple did BUT we had many 6-8 year old girls dressed as Brittney Spears. I sort of think I'd rather they be dressed as a pretend monster than her!

(The mothers called them 'Brittney' or would say 'she's Brittney Spears...')

Diane

 

So on the 31st, my car's odometer rolls over to 66666. I thought it mildly amusing that it happend to occur on this date... But I was driving home at about 10pm when I hit a deer and caused about $1,666.00 in damages to the front end. True story.


At least I got my animal sacrifice in before midnight.

 

This is OT, but it reminds me of a weird coincidence I once experienced.

In the city where I lived, there was a high-rise commercial building that stood relatively alone; it had a huge neon sign near the top. You could see it all over the city.

Some friends of mine lived in an apartment building several miles away. One evening, we were chatting and looking out the window at the tall building; the neon sign was off. I said something like this:

"I've never actually seen the sign come on. I've noticed it off, then noticed it on later, but I've never actually seen it turn on. It's like I just blink (here I did an obvious stage blink) and it's on."

And in that blink the sign had come on...

-Neil

 

Did someone hum the obligatory theme from "The Twilight Zone"? I think it's the law under those circumstances.

 

Agreed, Diane, but the lesser of two evils is still evil.