Hard Question for Catholics

[lori4dogs]

Nope, you certainly don't. But to be a Baptist you must believe Baptist doctrine, not Catholic doctrine. Doesn't that make sense to you?

If I were working for IBM, why would I embrace MAC Operating System and demand a MAC computer.

There are Baptist distinctives and then there is Baptist doctrine. As we well know, all Baptists do not believe the same doctrines. There are Freewill Baptist, Full Gospel Baptists. etc. Surely you aren't going to tell me that all Baptist are in sync doctrinally. Remember Kingdom Exclusion?

I've seen too many Baptist churches split over doctrine to know that y'all don't agree on doctrine.

 

[DHK]

There are Baptist distinctives and then there is Baptist doctrine. As we well know, all Baptists do not believe the same doctrines. There are Freewill Baptist, Full Gospel Baptists. etc. Surely you aren't going to tell me that all Baptist are in sync doctrinally. Remember Kingdom Exclusion?

I've seen too many Baptist churches split over doctrine to know that y'all don't agree on doctrine.

Sorry that answer doesn't wash. No Baptist defends Catholic doctrine. Both religions are at antipodes with each other. They are at opposite poles of the spectrum. You can't be both at the same time. You must be one or the other. The minor differences between Baptists are minor compared to the differences between Catholics and Baptists of any sort. Your answer is absolutely ridiculous in that light.

 

[BobRyan]

There are Baptist distinctives and then there is Baptist doctrine. As we well know, all Baptists do not believe the same doctrines. There are Freewill Baptist, Full Gospel Baptists. etc. Surely you aren't going to tell me that all Baptist are in sync doctrinally. Remember Kingdom Exclusion?

I've seen too many Baptist churches split over doctrine to know that y'all don't agree on doctrine.

Hey -- you left out "Seventh-day Baptist"

 

[DHK]

Hey -- you left out "Seventh-day Baptist"

One man honors one day above another; another man honors every day the same. Who art thou to judge thy brother? The Baptist doctrine is the same.
In the SDA doctrine there are other doctrines that are far more harmful than just worshiping on a Saturday.

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry to hear about that. I suppose he "could" have simply had you sprinkled as a baby if he were a member of a Lutheran, Presbyterian or Catholic Church. You probably would not have viewed that case as "forced against your will" since clearly in that case -you would have had no actual participation at all in the exercise.

But as you point out - forcing someone against their will is not a Christian act.

If we learned anything from the tortures of the Dark Ages - we learned that one!

in Christ,

Bob

We seem to be zeroed in on that concept.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Sorry that answer doesn't wash. No Baptist defends Catholic doctrine. Both religions are at antipodes with each other. They are at opposite poles of the spectrum. You can't be both at the same time. You must be one or the other. The minor differences between Baptists are minor compared to the differences between Catholics and Baptists of any sort. Your answer is absolutely ridiculous in that light.

First you have to properly define a Catholic Doctrine in order go against it. Certainly Baptist are not sacramentalist. Grace is imparted to the baptist by faith alone not by a particular practice. That can be argued. But there are other areas that cannot be such as the doctrine of the trinity, etc...

 

[lori4dogs]

One man honors one day above another; another man honors every day the same. Who art thou to judge thy brother? The Baptist doctrine is the same.
In the SDA doctrine there are other doctrines that are far more harmful than just worshiping on a Saturday.

If all Baptist doctrine is the same, why is this happening?

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-chat/1625961/posts

 

[BobRyan]

To argue that there are closer doctrine ties between baptist churches than there is between Baptist Faith and Message and the Catholic Church is not to argue that every belief held by the Catholic Church is therefore denied by all Baptists.

 

[BobRyan]

If all Baptist doctrine is the same, why is this happening?

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-chat/1625961/posts

in the Baptist church you have everything from the Biblically conservative free-will baptists and Seventh-day Baptist -- to the charismatic snake-handling baptists.

I don't know how anyone claims that "all baptist doctrine is the same".

But I do believe that all Baptists (And Seventh-day Adventists as it turns out") will agree on the Bible as the Word of God, the Trinity, baptism of believers only, and saved by grace through faith not of works lest anyone should boast, as well as other doctrines such as sola scriptura testing of all doctrine.

Arguably - on the list of doctrines that they hold in common at least two in that list would be a difference between Baptists and Catholics..

You could also argue for purgatory, prayers to the saints, the use of images, indulgences, the confessional etc as other clear examples of differences

 

[DHK]

If all Baptist doctrine is the same, why is this happening?

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-chat/1625961/posts

For the same reason the KJVO is a controversial debate among Baptists.
It is a point of needless controversy.
If you have noticed on this board I get along with both Calvinists and non-Calvinists just fine. If some wish to make it a point of separation then that is up to their own local churches. Remember every local church is different and totally autonomous. They are not mindless automatons like the Catholic churches who must follow the Magesterium.

 

[lori4dogs]

For the same reason the KJVO is a controversial debate among Baptists.
It is a point of needless controversy.
If you have noticed on this board I get along with both Calvinists and non-Calvinists just fine. If some wish to make it a point of separation then that is up to their own local churches. Remember every local church is different and totally autonomous. They are not mindless automatons like the Catholic churches who must follow the Magesterium.

Right, I have noticed how well you 'get along' with Heavenly Pilgrim!

And how 'bout those Baptist who claim a belief in Kingdom Exclusion? That is to say 'purgatory'. I have read Baptist who claim it is not the same as purgatory, but then they don't explain how it is not. Sure looks like a re-working of purgatory to me.

Then you got Particular Baptists and General Baptists. Just who did Jesus die for?

 

[BobRyan]

Lori -

I believe you have made your point that Baptist do not agree on every point of doctrine and that some of them can at times be "ugly" (A word used in the South) toward those who differ with them.

Is it your argument that there have never been cases of schism or persecution of fellow Catholics within the Catholic church - or are you simply saying that other churches have problems?

 

[lori4dogs]

Lori -

I believe you have made your point that Baptist do not agree on every point of doctrine and that some of them can at times be "ugly" (A word used in the South) toward those who differ with them.

Is it your argument that there have never been cases of schism or persecution of fellow Catholics within the Catholic church - or are you simply saying that other churches have problems?

By no means is the Catholic Church exempt from schismatics. There used to be a banner on this site run by a schismatic Catholic organization. Fr. Leonard Feeney and his followers are another example.

 

[lori4dogs]

I might add that the 'Old Catholic Church' is a significant schismatic Catholic Church and is in communion with the Anglican Church.

 

[DHK]

Right, I have noticed how well you 'get along' with Heavenly Pilgrim!

HP, by his own admission (in his profile), is not a Baptist.

And how 'bout those Baptist who claim a belief in Kingdom Exclusion? That is to say 'purgatory'. I have read Baptist who claim it is not the same as purgatory, but then they don't explain how it is not. Sure looks like a re-working of purgatory to me.

It is, and thus these pretenders were not considered to be Baptists.

Then you got Particular Baptists and General Baptists. Just who did Jesus die for?

And what is your point here? They worked hand in hand to fight the vile heresies of the RCC throughout history.

 

[lori4dogs]

HP, by his own admission (in his profile), is not a Baptist.
He is attending a Baptist Church.
It is, and thus these pretenders were not considered to be Baptists.
By who?? You!
And what is your point here? They worked hand in hand to fight the vile heresies of the RCC throughout history.

Many anti-Catholics attack Christ's Holy Church. So any enemy of my enemy is my friend?

My point is that many Baptist differ on various doctrines and to paint all Baptist with one brush is deceptive and wrong.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I might add that the 'Old Catholic Church' is a significant schismatic Catholic Church and is in communion with the Anglican Church.

They are only schismatic because of the Syllabus of Errors and Modern Definition that Pius IX placed on Papal infallibility and Immiculate conception. Strangely many European countries supported the Old Catholic church.

 

[DHK]

Many anti-Catholics attack Christ's Holy Church. So any enemy of my enemy is my friend?

My point is that many Baptist differ on various doctrines and to paint all Baptist with one brush is deceptive and wrong.

What you term as "Christ's Holy Church," does not belong to Christ, is far from holy, and is not a church, but a business organization.
As far as holiness is concerned it is composed of thugs, rapists, pedophiles, murderers, mass murderers, serial killers, and criminals whom the RCC would rather protect than bring to justice. That is the RCC. That is not Christ's Church. It is far from holy. It is an organization; not a church. It does not even come close to the definition of a church ekklesia (assembly). In no way does this anti-Christ organization belong to Christ. Rather Christ's words in John 8:44 are more applicable.

 

[lori4dogs]

What you term as "Christ's Holy Church," does not belong to Christ, is far from holy, and is not a church, but a business organization.
As far as holiness is concerned it is composed of thugs, rapists, pedophiles, murderers, mass murderers, serial killers, and criminals whom the RCC would rather protect than bring to justice. That is the RCC. That is not Christ's Church. It is far from holy. It is an organization; not a church. It does not even come close to the definition of a church ekklesia (assembly). In no way does this anti-Christ organization belong to Christ. Rather Christ's words in John 8:44 are more applicable.

Wow! I'm surprised you haven't 'chimed in' your support for John MacArthur over on the thread about his lies and ignorance regarding the Catholic Church.

I know a LOT of Catholic priests, DHK. Not one of them is a pedophile, rapist, mass murderer, serial killer or criminal. Just humble servants winning souls for Jesus.

 

[DHK]

Wow! I'm surprised you haven't 'chimed in' your support for John MacArthur over on the thread about his lies and ignorance regarding the Catholic Church.

I know a LOT of Catholic priests, DHK. Not one of them is a pedophile, rapist, mass murderer, serial killer or criminal. Just humble servants winning souls for Jesus.

And I have link after link that takes me to one sex scandal after another that directly or indirectly involve the pope himself. Then so many others that involve Bishops, not to say of thousands of priests.
Then there are the Crusades.
Not to mention the Inquisitions.