Harvesting

[agedman]

There are various schemes concerning the time of the rapture

Some consider it already accomplished prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 ad.

Some consider it will be the starting point of the great tribulation.

Some consider it sometime in the middle or even the end as the event that starts the millennium.

The purpose of this thread is to present your opinion about a mention in Scripture where the Lord is told to harvest the earth.

13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
​

Another angel follows this action and casts that reaping into the wine press of the wrath of God.

Accordingly, the next chapter begins the pouring out the bowls of the wrath of God.

This follows the final trumpet. And does not the Scripture state that “at the last trumpet, the dead in Christ shall rise and we which are alive and remain will be caught up to meet Him in the air?”

Again, the purpose of this thread is to give your opinion concerning this first harvest by “one like the Son of Man.”

Could it be the rapture, or is it another harvest.

I find the Revelation one of the most fascinating records in Scripture, and I recommend all believers to imprint it upon their hear and mind, for it has wonderful promises to believers along with great sorrows to be preserved through as God tests the saint that they may be a testimony.

 

[Dave G]

This follows the final trumpet. And does not the Scripture state that “at the last trumpet, the dead in Christ shall rise and we which are alive and remain will be caught up to meet Him in the air?”

Could it be the rapture, or is it another harvest.

" Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." ( James 5:7-8 ).

" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31).

" But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."(Mark 13:24-27).


Based on these, what do you think it is?

I know what it is, and I look forward to it, my friend...
Very much.

 

[Reformed]

As Revelation is always a difficult book to understand, chapter 14 is illustrative of this difficulty.

First, it is my understanding that the reaping in chapter 14 is not in any way a rapture of the righteous. Indeed, it is a reaping of the world in all its iniquity. The One doing the reaping in verse 14 is the Lord Jesus Christ. Note that He is described as "a son of man" wearing a golden crown. This is kingly language. Also note that nowhere is a reaping of the righteous ever explicitly mentioned. There is simply the command to reap. It is not until verse 19 that we read, "So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God." The reaping of Revelation 14 is unto judgment. This is similar to the taking away in Matthew 24:

Matthew 24:36-40 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."

The key passage here is, "and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away". It is those who are taken away who are done so in judgment. This is the same thing in Revelation 14.

 

[canadyjd]

There are various schemes concerning the time of the rapture

Some consider it already accomplished prior to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 ad.

Some consider it will be the starting point of the great tribulation.

Some consider it sometime in the middle or even the end as the event that starts the millennium.

The purpose of this thread is to present your opinion about a mention in Scripture where the Lord is told to harvest the earth.

13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
​

Another angel follows this action and casts that reaping into the wine press of the wrath of God.

Accordingly, the next chapter begins the pouring out the bowls of the wrath of God.

This follows the final trumpet. And does not the Scripture state that “at the last trumpet, the dead in Christ shall rise and we which are alive and remain will be caught up to meet Him in the air?”

Again, the purpose of this thread is to give your opinion concerning this first harvest by “one like the Son of Man.”

Could it be the rapture, or is it another harvest.

I find the Revelation one of the most fascinating records in Scripture, and I recommend all believers to imprint it upon their hear and mind, for it has wonderful promises to believers along with great sorrows to be preserved through as God tests the saint that they may be a testimony.

To understand the book of Revelation, you must, imo, always remember a couple of things.

1. John does not write in chronological order. Not in his gospel and not in Revelation. He writes in repeated themes, giving additional details as he goes.

2. The scene in heaven has of a judgment was reflective of a common practice in the Roman Empire. A noted official, sometimes the King himself, would hear cases.

Only death penalty cases and wills had seven seals. Each seal had a small slip which outlined that section of the scroll. So John tells us the info in the seals, and then goes back and gives more info about each section.

Revelation cannot be read as a chronological unfolding of future events, but rather as repeated themes throughout these future events.

peace to you

 

[Dave G]

@agedman :

To clarify, I believe that the part you referenced in Revelation 14 was the Lord gathering His people to Himself.
To illustrate, I'll post the passage that I see as pertinent ( which you have also done above ):

" And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped." ( Revelation 14:14-16 ).

This part I see as describing His coming again to gather His elect to Himself.

"He that sat on the cloud" is the Lord Jesus, as described in verse 14, "the Son of Man"..
He is the one who thrusts His own sickle in, and gathers His fruit, first.

Then comes another angel, and see what happens?

" And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs." ( Revelation 14:17-20 ).

In the above, I see that a second angel thrusts in his sickle and gathers what he reaps, and casts it into the great winepress of the wrath of God...
To me, this symbolizes the Judgment and the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:11-15 ).

Those are not the people of God being cast into that "winepress", as His saints will be with Him on His right hand ( Matthew 25:34 )...
They are the ones that are on His left ( Matthew 25:41 ).

 

[agedman]

These are all very good responses and each worthy of consideration.

What other views of the passage might be shown?

 

[37818]

The on going problem are speculations on the order of events based on the what the texts do not actually say. Also the parables are parables. The prophecies of the events are like different mountains seen together at a distance.

There is only the one first resurrection and it does not happen in parts. And it is just before the rapture. And the rapture is just before the wrath of God on the earth.

 

[agedman]

The on going problem are speculations on the order of events based on the what the texts do not actually say. Also the parables are parables. The prophecies of the events are like different mountains seen together at a distance.

There is only the one first resurrection and it does not happen in parts. And it is just before the rapture. And the rapture is just before the wrath of God on the earth.

That has been taught since the late 1800’s. And, so I still place my hope, but actually, the biggest clue is that the believers are not appointed to the wrath of God.

The bowls of wrath follow the gathering mentioned in the OP.

Early believers, or sometimes referred to as historic premillennial, knew the Lord’s return would establish a earthly kingdom, but were aware that believers were as Paul states, sheep daily lead to slaughter.

In my own opinion, because western believers have suffered little persecution in the last 300 years, we have become sidetracked into easy rapture thinking.

Does not the Scriptures state “those alive and remain?” Does that indicate there is something disastrous happening such as what the first 14 chapters of the Revelation picture?

 

[37818]

Does not the Scriptures state “those alive and remain?” Does that indicate there is something disastrous happening such as what the first 14 chapters of the Revelation picture?

Well there is Revelation 13:7, ". . . to make war with the saints . . . ." And Matthew 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." And a God's wrath is not mentioned until each end of a judgement set being that one common event, Revelation 6:17, Revelation 11:18, Revelation 16:9, Revelation 19:15. And that as believers we be with the Lord, 1 Thessalonians 1:10.

 

[agedman]

Well there is Revelation 13:7, ". . . to make war with the saints . . . ." And Matthew 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." And a God's wrath is not mentioned until each end of a judgement set being that one common event, Revelation 6:17, Revelation 11:18, Revelation 16:9, Revelation 19:15. And that as believers we be with the Lord, 1 Thessalonians 1:10.

These are all excellent, and it is important that we all remain rapture hopeful and yet not alarmed if some event, that others may pin their understanding upon, passes as the Lord’s return does not occur.

Such belief fits the very definition of faith. (Hebrews 11)

 

[37818]

These are all excellent, and it is important that we all remain rapture hopeful and yet not alarmed if some event, that others may pin their understanding upon, passes as the Lord’s return does not occur.

Such belief fits the very definition of faith. (Hebrews 11)

Well the "rapture" 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1 Corinthians 15:52, ". . . In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Well there is only one "the last" trumpet and only one "first" resurrection, Revelation 20:6, mentioned in all the texts.