Has everyone gotten soft on sin?

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBG:
Sorry...missed that! Forsake means to neglect or leave...abandon. What is the point?

Forsake means to utterly abandon or renounce.

What does that have to do with church members? The context in Hebrews is a warning. If it characterizes a person, he/she is lost. It has nothing to do with not showing up on Wednesday night.

Out like guilt-trip motivation.

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBG:
We are here for only one purpose, and that is to spread the gospel to the lost.

Then toss out most of your Bible. Most of the Bible is about doctrine and how to use that doctrine. If your only purpose in life is to evangelize, then do not post here and get busy doing that instead of trying to correct everyone else. You should never engage in any kind of discussion with another Christian except during Sunday School. All of your time must be devoted to evangelism.

Perhaps so many churches do not teach/preach the Word is because the pastors are so careless with it that he must resort to guilt-trip sermons that pressure people in the wrong way. Perhaps if they studied the Word a little more, they would see that unbelievers are the exception in the church congregation and not to even be expected. If you don't know what passage I am talking about it is in 1 Corinthians 14.

Perhaps if they studied a little more, people could be equipped in the right way and enter their everyday lives (work, school, etc) and know how to present Christ.

Out like boxes we put God in.

 

[SBG]

Sorry Preach,
It means exactly what it says...and that is referring to assembling together. And forsake, does not mean utterly abandon. It means leave, neglect or abandon...obviously the utterly you interject is to make a point...which you failed to do.

Out, like the churches that coddle sin, and aren't busy for the Lord.

 

[SBG]

I don't understand why the gospel is so hard for some to understand. I guess that is what the Apostle Paul was referring to in 1 Cor 2:14

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBG:
Sorry Preach,
It means exactly what it says...and that is referring to assembling together. And forsake, does not mean utterly abandon. It means leave, neglect or abandon...obviously the utterly you interject is to make a point...which you failed to do.

Out, like the churches that coddle sin, and aren't busy for the Lord.

So if you don't show up on this board for one day, should we assume that you have abandoned it? Of course not. Again, it means to leave and never come back. It doesn't mean to leave and change your mind and come back.

Now, tell me again what this has to do with Siegfried's post or church members?

Out like a dictionary.

[ September 10, 2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: PreachtheWord ]

 

[Abiyah]

This is what confuses me in this thread: it, too,
sounds very Arminian, as did another thread this
morning, because Arminians teach that there are
the sinners, and there are the saved. As a result,
their idea is to get everyone saved so there will
be no sinners. Calvinism, as I understand it,
being new to the doctrine, says that all are sin-
ners; it is just that some are saved.

Should not a Calvinist pastor or preacher, then,
spend some time being sure that the saved can
define sin, can understand the need for recog-
nizing sin, knows that forgiveness for sin con-
tinues to be necessary for the saved, and that
the saved do not need to wallow in or accept
repeated sin in their lives?

If the saved are not thus equipped, then we have:
* church members who call abortion a choice
* church members who abuse alcohol
* church members whose sins are not dealt with
because while they may not want to deal with sin
themselves, the preacher or pastor ought to
* church members who do not know what the
moral boundaries are
* church members who do not understand
modesty, what its boundaries are, and why
* church members who think that homosexuality
is acceptable as long as it is within a long-term
relationship
* church members who will fall for anything
because the Truth has not been presented.

Just as the Treasury teaches its employees how
to recognize real money by having them
repeatedly examine and handle the real money,
pastors teach the members to recognize Truth
by constantly and consistantly presenting them
with Truth.

[ September 10, 2002, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

[just-want-peace]

If the saved are not thus equipped, then we have:---

RIGHT ON GIRL, RIGHT ON!!!

When you don't know truth, how can you recognize a lie???

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBG:
I don't understand why the gospel is so hard for some to understand. I guess that is what the Apostle Paul was referring to in 1 Cor 2:14

Who do you think has a hard time with the gospel?

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by SBG:
It is indeed sad, when a church ignores or neglects the needs of the "found". Does that happen? I've never seen it, but I'll say that it probably does. But, the Lord didn't instruct us to get into a church to have OUR needs met. We are here for only one purpose, and that is to spread the gospel to the lost. If worship was the only reason...what would be the need to be here after we get saved?

SBG I feel the hardest part of Pastoring is the balancing act that must always be considered. I appreciate the way it is either this or that cut /dry with you but it is not so simple. I consider myself as having failed at all services and Sunday school if I cannot take the text God has led me to and minister to both the lost and the found. As to your comment on our not needing to be in Church to get our needs met I strongly dissagree and infact it makes me question what it is exactly that you are looking for in those 6 Churches you have visited.
Murph

 

[russell55]

Maybe I'm just dense, but I just don't follow the logic. How does equipping the saints during the sermon in the Sunday morning service rather than preaching a purely gospel message equate to being soft on sin? Please explain.

 

[Scott J]

The idea that church is the only place people hear the gospel and get saved is unbiblical and poisonous.

Can people be saved at church? Sure. Should the plan of salvation be given? Yes. But, the model NT church is a gathering where believers go for fellowship, worship, and teaching. They didn't welcome unbelievers into the assemblies and were exhorted to remove them if they were discovered.

The individual believer is responsible to take the gospel to the world. Preaching a salvation message every service diminishes the view of the Christian life, sanctification, and personal evangelism. The attitude: "Just get'm saved and everything else we take care of itself."

Most of the Baptist I knew growing up thought that they were supposed to keep a good reputation and invite people to church once in awhile... "the preacher does the savin'."

The church I attended in the past that did the best job of evangelizing the lost seldom had specific salvation sermons even on Sunday morning and almost never had "alter calls." However, out of about 200 members (men, women, and children), 25-40 of them would show up on Saturday morning to go knock on doors. Others went out during the week. Many witnessed to their neighbors, co-workers, appliance repairmen,... And partially because Christian growth was taught on Sunday morning, the attendance on Wednesday and Sunday night was usually 80%-90% of Sunday morning.

 

[swordsman]

I used to go to a BBF church soon after I was saved and I noticed the pastor never mentioned any sins(other than not tithing)that a child of God should not do.
What did it finally for me was when he was teaching us at a Wed. eve. service on the responsibilities of a pastor and he ref.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

He then went on to say it was a pastors job to be instant in and out of season,reprove and exhort but not to rebuke THAT was the job of the Holy Spirit. We left soon after.
I have a word for many of the pastors today in the Baptist churchs and that is HIRELING, I do not say this with any pleasure, I do feel we are definitly living in the end times.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by SBG:
I have recently left a Free Will Baptist church for doctrinal differences. I have visited six different churches, some were IFB, some SBC. I had been in the other church for years, and had not looked around, and took it for granted, that all Baptist Churches still preached against sin, and also preached the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. After visiting all of these churches, and finding that none of them seemed to be more than a carnal christian entertainment center, we went to a church where they weren't afraid to preach the gospel, to a lost and dying world. Thank God, that there are still some churches that have a desire for the souls of the lost. HAS EVERYONE GOTTEN SOFT ON SIN?

Nope... My church preaches hard.

If you ever visit California...let me know... Maybe you can visit my church and see that I mean what I say.

[ September 10, 2002, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

[SBG]

Bless you for your response Wisdomseeker, it seems your the only one that this didn't go over their head! It is sad that there are some that have been called to preach, that would rather entertain. Yes it is that cut and dry! The gospel isn't an enigma, nor is it implied. It is obvious, that the majority of the folks here on this board, are here to try to showcase their intelligence. It would seem that some take a semester of Greek, and now they think they are a scholar. The Bible is spiritually discerned. The gospel was made very simple for a reason. Preach the cross...if the members can't get edification from that, they might need to check their baggage.

Out, like spiritual discernment and focus on the main theme in most SBC's!

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by SBG:
Bless you for your response Wisdomseeker, it seems your the only one that this didn't go over their head! It is sad that there are some that have been called to preach, that would rather entertain. Yes it is that cut and dry!Out, like spiritual discernment and focus on the main theme in most SBC's!

SBG if you wish to stab at me I prefer you to name me instead of using part of my quote as a soundbite. It is funny to me that I have suddenly been placed on the other side, I have always been plain and simple. I still think that you are wrong that we should Preach nothing but soul winning messages to the exclusion of ministering to the saints. I feel that you have labeled me falsly and if you will send me your mailing address I will send you a tape of a sermon so you can see if I Preach the cross or if I am an entertainer. By the way, yes I am somewhat of an entertainer at times that is part of the balancing act of Pastoring as well.
Murph

 

[Abiyah]

Originally posted by SBG:
Bless you for your response Wisdomseeker, it seems your the only one that this didn't go over their head! It is sad that there are some that have been called to preach, that would rather entertain. Yes it is that cut and dry! The gospel isn't an enigma, nor is it implied. It is obvious, that the majority of the folks here on this board, are here to try to showcase their intelligence. It would seem that some take a semester of Greek, and now they think they are a scholar. The Bible is spiritually discerned. The gospel was made very simple for a reason. Preach the cross...if the members can't get edification from that, they might need to check their baggage.

Out, like spiritual discernment and focus on the main theme in most SBC's!

Your response to WisdomSeeker really amazed
me, SBG. While she was merely letting you know
that her church does reach the lost and does teach,
you came back with the idea that you were writing
way over the rest of our heads, just because we
do not agree with you that the preaching MUST be
for reaching the lost everytime the church doors
open. Following that, you put us down by saying
that we think a semester of Greek has equipped
us with our thoughts but if we weretruly educated,
we would agree with you.

The preacher is not the only evangelist! We are all
to reach the lost, but if we have not been eqipped
to do so, we cannot. There may be some
churches that concentrate merely upon equipping
the people for the "box" of the church, but your
idea that preaching is only for the lost does not
cover it.

 

[Siegfried]

Originally posted by SBG:
Preach, what, based on scripture, is the great commission?

Discipleship, pure and simple. In the Great Commission, the one concrete verb (not a participle) is the word for making disciples. It's the same word that in its noun form is the word disciple.

Tell me, did Jesus spend all his time with his disciples witnessing to the lost? Absolutely not! Many times there were multitudes of lost people around him, but he presented truth in such a way that only the disciples would understand.

Good comments, Abiyah, Scott J, and PTW.

 

[Siegfried]

Originally posted by SBG:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

Do you have that many immature believers in your church, Siegfried?..... I'm afraid, in our quest for knowledge, we have lost sight of the main theme. How can we concern ourselves with the "deep things" of God's word, when we can't even get the little things like "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" for example?</font>[/QUOTE]I've never been in an IFB church that didn't have lots of immature believers.

Maybe believers "forsake the assembling" because they never get fed at church. Why would a believer want to go to church when every sermon is preached to the lost?

 

[Daniel David]

Did not Paul tell the elders in Ephesus to preach the whole counsel of God?

Out like the romans road.

 

[SBG]

Abiyah, please read your PM from me, sent prior to your latest post. I suppose from the responses that were made, I never make my point very clear! I'm sorry. I will try to improve on my delivery. The post was trying to get a feel, for others opinions about the fact, that a lot of churches today have lost their focus on the MAIN THEME. This isn't a slam against you, but I can understand why a person that is looking at this from a Reformed Theology perspective, can beleve that edification is more important than evangelism. The "over their head comment" was not well thought out on my part...I should have said that they missed the point of my post. But, I will not back away from my belief, that there are some people, that have obtained a certain level of education, and that that somehow gives them the liberty to publish their view as the only view possible.

Murph,
I didn't intend that as a stab against you. I've never heard you preach, you may very well be an exception to the popular belief, among some, that the SBC has gotten liberal, and soft on sin. I only hope that there are still men in that camp, willing to preach the gospel. If you do as you say, and I have no reason to doubt your word, God bless you! I think the balancing act that you mention, isn't that difficult...preach the gospel, throw in some edification for the saints, but preach the gospel! I don't see how anyone can get tired of hearing the preaching of his cross. Let me relate a story. We had a dear lady come to our church a few months ago, that had been an active member in a church, had went everytime the doors were open. She came, and heard the gospel preached, and was saved. How can she go to a church, week in and week out, and never come under the conviction of here sin, and with a contrite heart, turn to the Lord as her only way of salvation? She said they never preached the gospel. That's sad! We should be more concerned for the souls, than the roles. I do hope that it hasn't gotten as bad as it seems. MURPH, please don't take this personal...it wasn't addressed towards you, or do I in anyway believe that your ministry is soft on sin....Like I said, I've never heard you preach. But, whether you want to believe it or not, you are yoked to an association, that many think is adrift, and lost it's focus on what it was left here to do.
God bless.