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Has everyone gotten soft on sin?
- Thread starter SBG
- Start date
Well, perhaps this has been an exercise in both
misunderstanding and disagreement. I did read
your private post to me and appreciate your
comments. You are apparently seeking for
those who will preach both a strong sermon
against sin and for the lost to be saved. I think
that if we boiled down everything said here, we
would all strongly agree with that.
Where I got lost with you, SBC, was when you
said that the message was to be to the lost on
Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and Wednes-
day night, leaving the equipping to Sunday
school. That frightened me, because I know
what the average attendance is for Sunday
schools!!
Of course, my thoughts also went back a few
weeks ago to when I thought that I could start
going to a Baptist church on Sunday nights
and/or Wednesday evenings. I remembered
calling nearly every baptist church in my LARGE
phone book, only to learn that none have
Sunday night services and Wednesday nights,
if they have anything, are Family Fun Nights.
A mere Sunday morning service seems to take
care of things in my area.
Obviously, I was disappointed, but it made me
become more aware of what my synagogue
has to offer. So I signed up for classes on
Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday nights.
Thank you for explaining. I appreciate it.
misunderstanding and disagreement. I did read
your private post to me and appreciate your
comments. You are apparently seeking for
those who will preach both a strong sermon
against sin and for the lost to be saved. I think
that if we boiled down everything said here, we
would all strongly agree with that.
Where I got lost with you, SBC, was when you
said that the message was to be to the lost on
Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and Wednes-
day night, leaving the equipping to Sunday
school. That frightened me, because I know
what the average attendance is for Sunday
schools!!
Of course, my thoughts also went back a few
weeks ago to when I thought that I could start
going to a Baptist church on Sunday nights
and/or Wednesday evenings. I remembered
calling nearly every baptist church in my LARGE
phone book, only to learn that none have
Sunday night services and Wednesday nights,
if they have anything, are Family Fun Nights.
A mere Sunday morning service seems to take
care of things in my area.
Obviously, I was disappointed, but it made me
become more aware of what my synagogue
has to offer. So I signed up for classes on
Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday nights.
Thank you for explaining. I appreciate it.
I do feel a church should preach primarily to the lost on Sunday Morning service with a little meat thrown in on the side.
As far as all the other services I believe it should be very in depth and meaty for the saints.
Where I have been attending it is VERY strong in teaching the Word of God, I would dare to say that it is more like a Bible institute. Very strong preaching on sin and separation, living a Godly life. There is not much tradition of men, we dress casual but conservative, no offering is taken up there is a box in the back, it is so relaxed , like a family. No stuffiness.
What I am getting to is that I feel that a church should be a place where the child of God can go to be instructed in the things of the Lord, fellowship and strengthen each other, the church building is not the place where the main agenda is to win the lost in the congregation but to edify the saints to win the lost in the world and bring them to the church building.
I was attending a BBF church here in Savannah and nothing but milk was ever taught because "many people we not as mature as others", 98% of the ones he was referring to have been going there regulary for 8 yrs.
The deacons even knew very little of the Word, one was even an evolutionist.
They wanted to make the church comfortable for the lost, I strongly believe that the Church today is way to comfortable for the lost. That is why sin and standards are not preached,$$$
Sorry got off on a bunny trail, I'll shut up now
As far as all the other services I believe it should be very in depth and meaty for the saints.
Where I have been attending it is VERY strong in teaching the Word of God, I would dare to say that it is more like a Bible institute. Very strong preaching on sin and separation, living a Godly life. There is not much tradition of men, we dress casual but conservative, no offering is taken up there is a box in the back, it is so relaxed , like a family. No stuffiness.
What I am getting to is that I feel that a church should be a place where the child of God can go to be instructed in the things of the Lord, fellowship and strengthen each other, the church building is not the place where the main agenda is to win the lost in the congregation but to edify the saints to win the lost in the world and bring them to the church building.
I was attending a BBF church here in Savannah and nothing but milk was ever taught because "many people we not as mature as others", 98% of the ones he was referring to have been going there regulary for 8 yrs.
The deacons even knew very little of the Word, one was even an evolutionist.
They wanted to make the church comfortable for the lost, I strongly believe that the Church today is way to comfortable for the lost. That is why sin and standards are not preached,$$$
Sorry got off on a bunny trail, I'll shut up now
Abiyah,
God bless you Sis!
It does seem to be the trend, that some churches are doing away with Sunday night, and Wednesday night services. That is so sad! I believe the reason is that some churches, have gotten into the entertainment business. I guess some of us here are just weird.....I mean, I can't wait until the church doors are opened. I really love being able to fellowship with my brothers and sisters. I enjoy worshipping the Lord. I enjoy the work of the Lord. I love my private study and fellowship with the Lord. And yes, I think we should take every opportunity to brag on Jesus. I think everytime we have an open service, we ought to think that some lost person may be in attendance, and try to show him the way to the cross.
God bless you Sis!
It does seem to be the trend, that some churches are doing away with Sunday night, and Wednesday night services. That is so sad! I believe the reason is that some churches, have gotten into the entertainment business. I guess some of us here are just weird.....I mean, I can't wait until the church doors are opened. I really love being able to fellowship with my brothers and sisters. I enjoy worshipping the Lord. I enjoy the work of the Lord. I love my private study and fellowship with the Lord. And yes, I think we should take every opportunity to brag on Jesus. I think everytime we have an open service, we ought to think that some lost person may be in attendance, and try to show him the way to the cross.
I believe that the primary function of the ASSEMBLY is for believers. The individual believers within the assembly ought to be reaching the lost as they go about their business of living thier lives. They should be reaching out with the gospel to their family, their neighbors, their coworkers.
The first step in presenting someone with the gospel should not be inviting them to come to church.
The first step in presenting someone with the gospel should not be inviting them to come to church.
Excellent post Swordsman!
I agree! We shouldn't gear our entire service to preaching to the lost...but, I think we should preach, as if someone is there, that has never heard the gospel. Yes, there is a distiction between preaching to the lost, who also happen to be regular attenders, and those that are in attendance that have never heard the true gospel message. I still think it's putting the cart before the horse, to teach that works based salvation is heresy, for example, before a person gets saved. Or how we should tithe, or "study to show thyself approved". Those concepts, are really meaningless, to a lost person.
I agree! We shouldn't gear our entire service to preaching to the lost...but, I think we should preach, as if someone is there, that has never heard the gospel. Yes, there is a distiction between preaching to the lost, who also happen to be regular attenders, and those that are in attendance that have never heard the true gospel message. I still think it's putting the cart before the horse, to teach that works based salvation is heresy, for example, before a person gets saved. Or how we should tithe, or "study to show thyself approved". Those concepts, are really meaningless, to a lost person.
Daniel David
New Member
But SBG, they wouldn't have a wrong idea about what Christians do and who they are. Many christians think you should give the romans road type message to "get someone saved". Then, they start with all the real christian stuff.
Out like fake discipleship.
Out like fake discipleship.
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
It is my opinio that the Gospel should be presented anytime a lost person is in the church. The majority of the time that would be Sunday morning at our church. I have changed my message on the spot when a visitor came in on Sunday evening. My folks know exactly what's going on.
I also believe that we should take care of our own people the best we can. I heard a story that illustrates this:
A shepherd found a stray sheep one day with a broken leg, nearly starved to death. He picked up that sheep and took it back to his home and nursed it back to health. He set the broken leg. He was by that sheep night and day for several days until that sheep was able to walk and take care of itself.
When the sheep was good enough to leave, the shepherd asked the sheep, "Would you like to become part of our flock? I could take care of you with my other sheep."
The sheep replied, "No thank you. I saw how you neglected your other sheep to take care of me, a lost stray. I am looking for a shepherd who can take care of me while at the same time hunting for lost ones."
I am not a perfect Pastor. I have made mistakes. But I, by the grace of God, depend on the leading of the Holy Spirit to determine what to preach each service. If the message deals with sin, I preach it regardless of who is in the service. I lost a man, his wife, his mother, his daughter and son-in-law and thier three children because I touched on smoking one evening. This man was a trustee that I inherited that wouldn't give up his cigarettes. Rather than quit smoking, he left the church and took his family with him.
Sin is destroying our nation, our churches, our homes, and our lives. We must preach hard against sin while maintaining that balance between edifying the saints and evangelizing the lost.
I also believe that we should take care of our own people the best we can. I heard a story that illustrates this:
A shepherd found a stray sheep one day with a broken leg, nearly starved to death. He picked up that sheep and took it back to his home and nursed it back to health. He set the broken leg. He was by that sheep night and day for several days until that sheep was able to walk and take care of itself.
When the sheep was good enough to leave, the shepherd asked the sheep, "Would you like to become part of our flock? I could take care of you with my other sheep."
The sheep replied, "No thank you. I saw how you neglected your other sheep to take care of me, a lost stray. I am looking for a shepherd who can take care of me while at the same time hunting for lost ones."
I am not a perfect Pastor. I have made mistakes. But I, by the grace of God, depend on the leading of the Holy Spirit to determine what to preach each service. If the message deals with sin, I preach it regardless of who is in the service. I lost a man, his wife, his mother, his daughter and son-in-law and thier three children because I touched on smoking one evening. This man was a trustee that I inherited that wouldn't give up his cigarettes. Rather than quit smoking, he left the church and took his family with him.
Sin is destroying our nation, our churches, our homes, and our lives. We must preach hard against sin while maintaining that balance between edifying the saints and evangelizing the lost.
Don't try to make this into an attack on my church.
The point is that we are to preach the whole counsel of the Word of God, as PTW said. When we are preaching a passage that deals with salvation or the cross, we preach it. When we're not, don't impose it on the passage. Ultimately, all our preaching ought to be Christ-centered to the point that unbelievers see Him in every passage, even if they don't get the whole story every service.
Preach
I'm not near as smart as you. I don't get your point....People that happen into our churches, will be converted, by watching how we act in church? That is a novel approach! [Unnecessary personal attack deleted]
[ September 11, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Bob 63 ]
I'm not near as smart as you. I don't get your point....People that happen into our churches, will be converted, by watching how we act in church? That is a novel approach! [Unnecessary personal attack deleted]
[ September 11, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Bob 63 ]
C.S. Murphy
New Member
SBG thanks for demonstrating yet another important job of a Pastor, Diplomacy.
You are correct in the focus the SBC has taken as well as the georgia baptist I might add, we are yoked in the sense that we are a part. The convention still does many good things and we feel that we support this and for the misdeeds we for now feel it best to leave the offenders to God, maybe the day will come that we in the SBC will once again act like fightin fundamentalist's and kick the offenders out. you Pray for us.
Murph
You are correct in the focus the SBC has taken as well as the georgia baptist I might add, we are yoked in the sense that we are a part. The convention still does many good things and we feel that we support this and for the misdeeds we for now feel it best to leave the offenders to God, maybe the day will come that we in the SBC will once again act like fightin fundamentalist's and kick the offenders out. you Pray for us.
Murph
Daniel David
New Member
Christian maturity does not have to be measured by intelligence.
I am dead set opposed to the theory of lifestyle evangelism. I engage primarily in confrontational evangelism. I also believe that the word repentance must be a part of the presentation of Christ.
I was appointed a moderator based on my willingness to do it and the webmaster's decision.
My "out" takes serve a two fold purpose. One, it is to add some comic relief to my usually serious posts. Two, they often give a brief recap of my post and why I responded in the first place.
I admit that I am nit-picking a little but...
Do many lost people just wander into churches having never heard the gospel? I don't think I have ever seen this. The closest thing in my experience has been people looking for a hand out... and they give ample opportunities for one on one evangelism.
Aren't most lost people invited to church? If this is the case then why are church members inviting people to church without sharing the gospel with them verbally or at least in a tract?
This hits close to home to me. A very close relative argued with me that all Christians were not responsible to share the gospel. In her mind, the responsibility of the individual Christian was to live a good testimony and maybe invite the lost to church. The same person has shown minimal Christian growth in all the time I have known her even though she is very faithful in church attendance. I believe that part of this is that she "expects" people to be saved in church after hearing the plan of salvation from the pastor.
Most lost people will never come to a Bible believing church even if invited. On the other hand, they will talk to believers at work or at home or out in the community. Many of them will talk about spiritual matters without reservation, some won't... but they almost uniformly don't want our "religion" and the church building is a symbol of that.
Is there anywhere in the NT that a pastor is commanded to preach a message in church directed to unbelievers? I can think of lots of other things he is commanded to preach.
Is there anyone in the NT who was saved in church? I can think of people who were saved in prison, on a highway, by the river, at a religious feast, and even in synagogues, but I can't think of anyone who was saved in a church service.
Concerning this assertion that we ought to preach sermons directed toward the lost at every service, which is lacking, my memory, or the biblical evidence?
[ September 11, 2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
Is there anyone in the NT who was saved in church? I can think of people who were saved in prison, on a highway, by the river, at a religious feast, and even in synagogues, but I can't think of anyone who was saved in a church service.
Concerning this assertion that we ought to preach sermons directed toward the lost at every service, which is lacking, my memory, or the biblical evidence?
[ September 11, 2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
Preach, regardless how many coats of paint you put on an outhouse, it's still an outhouse. As much as you try to rationalize it or justify it, it is still wrong, and you should realize that.
(referring to your out messages)And the fact that you can censor post, while injecting your own little jab, is evidence of your lack of maturity. Mental not spiritual. It is your ducking of questions, and the fact that you don't adhere to the same admonishments that you place on others in the forum, that bring the latter into question.
(referring to your out messages)And the fact that you can censor post, while injecting your own little jab, is evidence of your lack of maturity. Mental not spiritual. It is your ducking of questions, and the fact that you don't adhere to the same admonishments that you place on others in the forum, that bring the latter into question.
Wisdom Seeker
New Member
Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.. Psalm 119:165
Why then is it becoming so common? Getting offended? Staying offended...appologizing, and then getting offended and offending others again.
Soft on Sin? Yes! Many churches are more into pleasing the people then sticking to the word.... People pleasers...... "We'll sing and have fellowship"..."We won't talk about the blood of Christ", "Wear whatever you want" "We won't even have the word "Church" on our building...so as to not offend anyone".... ISN'T THIS COMPROMISE?!
There is nothing wrong with sharing the plan of salvation and having an invitation at every service...followed by Believers Baptism at every service.
Keep The Main Thing the Main Thing.
This was our Lord's purpose in becoming a man in the first place...to die for our sins. Let's not pretend that this is not the cornerstone of our faith.
[ September 11, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
Why then is it becoming so common? Getting offended? Staying offended...appologizing, and then getting offended and offending others again.
Soft on Sin? Yes! Many churches are more into pleasing the people then sticking to the word.... People pleasers...... "We'll sing and have fellowship"..."We won't talk about the blood of Christ", "Wear whatever you want" "We won't even have the word "Church" on our building...so as to not offend anyone".... ISN'T THIS COMPROMISE?!
There is nothing wrong with sharing the plan of salvation and having an invitation at every service...followed by Believers Baptism at every service.
Keep The Main Thing the Main Thing.
This was our Lord's purpose in becoming a man in the first place...to die for our sins. Let's not pretend that this is not the cornerstone of our faith.
[ September 11, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
Praise God, I have belonged to such an IFB church! AND, it was because their focus was equipping Christians to live godly lives and reach the lost out where the lost are.
They were also the godliest church on average I have ever seen. The pastor (a BJU grad) preached biblical principles for battling sin, the flesh, and the Devil but in an edifying manner as opposed to the harsh, accusatory style I had seen in most IFB's. He preached as if he really believed the battle was won in Christ rather than in the power of his sermons... so his sermons were some of the most powerful I have ever experienced.
[ September 11, 2002, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Scott J ]