Has everyone gotten soft on sin?

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBG:
Preach, regardless how many coats of paint you put on an outhouse, it's still an outhouse. As much as you try to rationalize it or justify it, it is still wrong, and you should realize that.
(referring to your out messages)And the fact that you can censor post, while injecting your own little jab, is evidence of your lack of maturity. Mental not spiritual. It is your ducking of questions, and the fact that you don't adhere to the same admonishments that you place on others in the forum, that bring the latter into question.

I DID NOT CENSOR YOUR POST. You may believe I am immature and ignorant and anything you like. I am not in a popularity contest and neither are you. We can both post comments and call into question the other person's interpretation and even the methods used. Fine. Leave it at that though. Part of the fun of being a Baptist is acknowledging that truth exists, it can be known, and everyone else is a stinkin' liberal (okay not everyone).

Like Osama's chance of heaven, I am out.

[ September 12, 2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: PreachtheWord ]

 

[Ransom]

SBG said:

So, Sunday a.m. when the highest liklihood is for a lost person to be in attendance, preach the cross! Sunday night, preach the cross! Wednesday night, preach the cross! Equip the saints during Sunday School.

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with members of your church going home once Sunday school was over, since the service was not intended to address them, anyway.

 

[Ransom]

Siegfried said:

Concerning this assertion that we ought to preach sermons directed toward the lost at every service, which is lacking, my memory, or the biblical evidence?

Evidence.

Actually, I'm reminded of Paul's words in 1 Cor. 14:23-25:

Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. (emphasis added)

Paul doesn't discount the possibility that an unbeliever might come in, but his rhetorical question presupposes that this would be the exception rather than the norm.

It would seem counterproductive to continually pump out evangelistic message after evangelistic message when the presence of an unbeliever is an exceptional circumstance.

[ September 11, 2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[donnA]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
SBG, should a pastor be more concerned with equipping the saints or evangelizing the lost during a worship service?

His job is to equip the saints so they can do the evangelizing.

 

[SBG]

His job is to equip the saints so they can do the evangelizing.

Yes. But what if they do neither?

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by SBG:
His job is to equip the saints so they can do the evangelizing.

Yes. But what if they do neither?

Then I would really wonder who that pastor was working for.

 

[SBG]

Yes!!!! My point exactly! Like I said, I have visited several churches in the past month, and only one did both!
Thanks PTW!

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Siegfried:
Is there anyone in the NT who was saved in church? I can think of people who were saved in prison, on a highway, by the river, at a religious feast, and even in synagogues, but I can't think of anyone who was saved in a church service.

Forgive me if I am wrong but wasn't there a big Church service held in the streets on the day of Pentacost? My Church will often take our services outside or to another place and it would be great if people got saved there but if so I would still consider them to be saved during our Church service. Now are you talking about the Church service or the actual building.
Murph

 

[Optional]

Originally posted by SBG:
Don't try to make this into an attack on my church.

Thanks for answering the question.

I see you conveniently only quoted part of the post so you could give a holier-than-thou answer.

Here's the rest of what he said:
"The point is that we are to preach the whole counsel of the Word of God, as PTW said. When we are preaching a passage that deals with salvation or the cross, we preach it. When we're not, don't impose it on the passage. Ultimately, all our preaching ought to be Christ-centered to the point that unbelievers see Him in every passage, even if they don't get the whole story every service. "

So tell me SBG - are you ever wrong?

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Ransom:
SBG said:

So, Sunday a.m. when the highest liklihood is for a lost person to be in attendance, preach the cross! Sunday night, preach the cross! Wednesday night, preach the cross! Equip the saints during Sunday School.

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with members of your church going home once Sunday school was over, since the service was not intended to address them, anyway.

ROFLOL man that is great I really appreciate that. Watch your fingers Ransom just hit the nail on the head.
Murph

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Forgive me if I am wrong but wasn't there a big Church service held in the streets on the day of Pentacost

I think that would better be classified as street preaching than a church/worship service.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

[QB]

Originally posted by SBG:
[qb]Preach, regardless how many coats of paint you put on an outhouse, it's still an outhouse. As much as you try to rationalize it or justify it, it is still wrong, and you should realize that.
(referring to your out messages)And the fact that you can censor post, while injecting your own little jab, is evidence of your lack of maturity. Mental not spiritual. It is your ducking of questions, and the fact that you don't adhere to the same admonishments that you place on others in the forum, that bring the latter into question

SBG remember how I said you were practicing diplomacy, well out with that brother. Seriously though I feel you are just a little off base with this line of thinking and of course that is your right(who knows maybe I am the one who is wrong) but let's play nice and practice that diplomacy please.
Murph

 

[Siegfried]

Originally posted by SBG:
I can think of lots of other things he is commanded to preach.

Can you please provide the scriptures, telling us what we are commanded to preach?

1 Tim. 1:3-4: sound doctrine, edification in faith
1 Tim. 3:8-12 (implied by his statement of his desire for people everywhere): methods of and attitude towards worship
1 Tim. 4:1-7: instruction in discerning false doctrine
1 Tim. 4:13: exhortation
1 Tim. 4:16: doctrine
1 Tim. 5:20: sin (if you count church discipline; if not, fine)
1 Tim. 6:17-20: humility
2 Tim. 2:2: Paul's teachings to be passed on to faithful men
2 Tim. 2:11-14: rewards for obedience; punishment for apostasy; God's faithfulness
2 Tim. 2:25-26 is a debatable but possible reference to evangelistic preaching.
2 Tim. 4:1-5: sound doctrine

Fair enough for starters?

 

[Siegfried]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Forgive me if I am wrong but wasn't there a big Church service held in the streets on the day of Pentacost

I think that would better be classified as street preaching than a church/worship service.</font>[/QUOTE]Precisely. The Church was initiated at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit began His ministry in the Church at that time. I think you would be hard pressed to say that Pentecost was a gathering of Christians as a church, but a few thousand orthodox Jews just happened to attend.

 

[Siegfried]

Originally posted by SBG
So, Sunday a.m. when the highest liklihood is for a lost person to be in attendance, preach the cross! Sunday night, preach the cross! Wednesday night, preach the cross! Equip the saints during Sunday School.

This philosophy of "Pick the service the most lost people attend to preach the gospel" is fundamentally flawed. It's pragmatically driven, not biblically driven. The most believers are present on Sunday morning, too, so why not preach to them?

This philosophy is the Rick Warren Saddleback Bill Hybels "Don't criticize a method God is blessing" philosophy dressed up and packaged in some nice fundamentalist wrapping paper.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Originally posted by SBG:
I take it, then, that you would have no problem with members of your church going home once Sunday school was over, since the service was not intended to address them, anyway.

Okay, here goes... at my church an invitation is given in every service. It's not the sermon...it's part of the service. Like music, prayer and baptism.

Originally posted by Ransom:
It would seem counterproductive to continually pump out evangelistic message after evangelistic message when the presence of an unbeliever is an exceptional circumstance.

"counterproductive"? "exceptional circumstance"? If even one soul accepted Christ as their savior...it would be worth it all.

I'm sorry. I had heard that there were churches that didn't try to reach lost souls for Christ... I guess I just didn't want to believe it was possible.

I thought to be a Baptist...was to believe in and obey the word of God? I am sitting here shaking my head in disbelief.

 

[Ransom]

WisdomSeeker said:

Okay, here goes... at my church an invitation is given in every service. It's not the sermon...it's part of the service. Like music, prayer and baptism.

As long as the focus of a church service is not dominated by evangelism of the lost, I don't object. But when it is sermon after sermon of "get saved, get saved, get saved," then why am I there? Would I not be better fed by, say, going to a donut shop and reading my Bible?

The primary purpose of corporate assembly is for believers: the worship of God, by the people of God, equipping them for the work of God. Any church that does not accomplish this has failed in its mandate. I don't care whether it is a Saddleback-style "seeker-sensitive" church or the staunchest IFB church in town - if it fails its mandate I will be seeking fellowship elsewhere, where the pastor takes his duties seriously.

"counterproductive"? "exceptional circumstance"? If even one soul accepted Christ as their savior...it would be worth it all.

In other words, the ends justifies the means.

I thought to be a Baptist...was to believe in and obey the word of God?

All of it, not just the "soulwinning" parts.

[ September 11, 2002, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Ransom, I agree with you... I feel the same way when we have a few sermons in a row about giving... I think gee whiz... not another sermon on money!

I'm fortunate to have a balanced church. I have a good Pastor.

And when I said what I did about obeying the word of God... it was because of people who have posted on this thread...that they don't believe in soul-winning or giving invitations. And quite frankly... I just couldn't believe it. I was genuinely shocked...that anyone would go to a church that didn't bring up what Christ did. I mean...isn't that the cornerstone of our faith? Why bother going at all...if the need for salvation is ignored? I agree... If that was what was offered to me... I would also be better off somewhere else reading my Bible.

But not a donut shop...donuts are bad for you.

"counterproductive"? "exceptional circumstance"? If even one soul accepted Christ as their savior...it would be worth it all.
In other words, the ends justifies the means.

I can't tell if you are in agreement or arguementative here... I would say that all the teaching about how a Christian should live...won't mean a hill of beans if the person isn't a Christian.

[ September 11, 2002, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by PreachtheWord:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Forgive me if I am wrong but wasn't there a big Church service held in the streets on the day of Pentacost

I think that would better be classified as street preaching than a church/worship service.</font>[/QUOTE]My criteria: while some would say that where two or more are gathered there you have the Church, but concerning it being street preaching. In my opinion if I am out there preaching or just me and you that is street preaching but if the entire congregation is there you are having church. I don't think they had musicians or a choir but they had a preacher and a great welcoming committee, hey they didn't even take up an offering, there goes the thought that they were baptist. ha.ha.

 

[Maverick]

First, you have to know what sin is and it is obvious from this board many do not know how to tell right from wrong and even get to the place of calling good evil and evil good. You can't get soft what you do not even know.