Has Fundamentalism Died?

[tyndale1946]

do you guys do lining?

Song leader for 35 years in my PB Church San Diego, until too many deaths caused disbandment... We all had songbooks so lining a hymn wasn't necessary and we all sang acapella... Went to one singing school a while back and discovered I wasn't as great as I thought I was but didn't deter me from my congregational leading activities... Then there was rlvaughn a member of the past that got serious with acapella, he sang Sacred Harp also called fasola or shape note... Also like to go on a website where they have all the old hymns acapella... Don't like to get away from my roots!... Brother Glen

 

[Deacon]

Originally the Fundamental Baptist Forum was formed to make a place for those that interpreted the Bible literally.
Early on I was kicked off the board for a week or two for suggesting that humans and dinosaurs did not co-exist.
I've rarely visited the Fundamental Forum since.

Is the Forum important for Fundamentalist now?
Is it helpful?
Does it serve a purpose?

If so, describe why and give concrete examples.

Rob

 

[Van]

I'm not a Fundamentalist so I won't post this on the Fundamental Baptist Forum here at the Baptist Board
but I'd like input from the few self-identified fundamentalists.
SNIP
So my questions are:

1) What is a Fundamentalist today? What separates a Fundamentalist from other Baptist believers?

and

2) Do we really need a separate Fundamentalist Baptist Forum anymore?

Rob

From the internet
In Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Churches, the Bible is the foundation, and from this foundation comes the framework known as the Baptist Distinctives. In Christian academies, Sunday schools and Bible colleges, these distinctives are taught with little variation using what is known as the “Baptist Acrostic”:

• Bible as Sole Authority of Faith and Practice
• Autonomy of the Local Church
• Priesthood of Every Believer
• Two Church Ordinances: Baptism and Lord’s Supper
• Individual Soul Liberty
• Saved Church Membership
• Two Church Offices: Pastor and Deacons
• Separation of Church and State

From IFB Doctrine: The Baptist Distinctives | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Individual Soul Liberty
Each person has the opportunity and responsibility to accept Christ as Savior for himself.

“For as it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:11-12).​

Thus actual Baptist Fundamentalists reject Calvinism

Many Baptist churches today would consider Pastor to be one of its "Elder" leaders.

 

[37818]

A Brief History of Fundamentalism - Shepherds Theological Seminary - Development

 

[Deacon]

From the internet
In Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Churches, the Bible is the foundation, and from this foundation comes the framework known as the Baptist Distinctives. In Christian academies, Sunday schools and Bible colleges, these distinctives are taught with little variation using what is known as the “Baptist Acrostic”:

• Bible as Sole Authority of Faith and Practice
• Autonomy of the Local Church
• Priesthood of Every Believer
• Two Church Ordinances: Baptism and Lord’s Supper
• Individual Soul Liberty
• Saved Church Membership
• Two Church Offices: Pastor and Deacons
• Separation of Church and State

From IFB Doctrine: The Baptist Distinctives | Spiritual Abuse Blogs

Individual Soul Liberty
Each person has the opportunity and responsibility to accept Christ as Savior for himself.

“For as it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:11-12).​

Thus actual Baptist Fundamentalists reject Calvinism

Many Baptist churches today would consider Pastor to be one of its "Elder" leaders.

Good post Van!

But these are not Fundamental Distictives, they are called Baptist Distinctives (even so, not every Baptist church confesses them).

Fundamental Baptists teach them, but that is not what makes them fundamental.

While those distinctive are foundational to Baptists those same distinctive exist in non-fundamental Baptist churches.

I’ve personally have been a member of two non-fundamental churches that instructed new members about these doctrinal distictives.

Perhaps Fundamentalism has died because no one really knows what it is or how it’s defined

Rob

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We'll be worshipping tonight, Wednesday night, in the very same fashion as we worshipped when I was a child in the 1960s.

Same goes for Soul winners knocking doors this afternoon. Soul winners knocking doors Saturday morning. Bus workers working their routes Saturday morning. Sunday School and Morning Worship Sunday morning. Evening service Sunday night.

The fatalistic musings and opinions of a modernist man in the Northeast are utterly inconsequential to the reality that we know.

The Old Paths are still God's Paths.

Do you still have to wear a suit & tie and do the women have to wear skirts as apposed to pants?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good post Van!

But these are not Fundamental Distictives, they are called Baptist Distinctives (even so, not every Baptist church confesses them).

Fundamental Baptists teach them, but that is not what makes them fundamental.

While those distinctive are foundational to Baptists those same distinctive exist in non-fundamental Baptist churches.

I’ve personally have been a member of two non-fundamental churches that instructed new members about these doctrinal distictives.

Perhaps Fundamentalism has died because no one really knows what it is or how it’s defined

Rob

I’d define it as anal retentive,inflexible, and judgmental. If you ask them to explain the doctrines of grace you are in for a self righteous tirade. BTW the PB church in Winter Garden FL serves lunch after every Sunday morning service.

 

[DaveXR650]

BTW the PB church in Winter Garden FL serves lunch after every Sunday morning service.

They tried that occasionally at the Reformed Baptist church I was at and the young women turned it into a showcase of crockpots full of vegan mulch. (Pulse, in the King James version). I think it was because they all wore pants.

 

[Baptizo]

Today, fundamentalism is said to be in an identity crisis.

When I first became a Christian I attended a baptist church that followed the teachings of Peter Ruckman. I remember that they claimed to be the true fundamental baptists of our time.

 

[Deacon]

When I first became a Christian I attended a baptist church that followed the teachings of Peter Ruckman. I remember that they claimed to be the true fundamental baptists of our time.

Is it any wonder that Fundamentalism has splintered and withered,
The core was battling against its own.

Rob

 

[DaveXR650]

When I first became a Christian I attended a baptist church that followed the teachings of Peter Ruckman. I remember that they claimed to be the true fundamental baptists of our time.

It's funny you mentioned him. In our fundamentalist church the pastor had a subscription to "Sword of the Lord" which he would give to us young guys to read. He also had a complimentary subscription to Ruckman's publication and told us that Ruckman was way out there and a racist, and for us not to take him seriously. It makes sense because this guy was trained at Hyle's church in Hammond, Indiana and I think that they had a bus ministry that bused in a lot of black kids for Sunday school. But that does bring up the point like @Deacon said, that I think fundamentalism had a flaw that was destined to destroy the movement and that was the tendency to separate from everyone for any reason, and also to find a reason, somehow, all the time..

I mean, you talk about KJV only. In my church it was unacceptable to have a New Scofield reference bible instead of the Old Scofield. And my pastor one time told me in a moment of feeling really charitable and open minded that he thought it was quite possible that people who believed in a mid-trib rapture might also me truly saved.

 

[Baptizo]

In my church it was unacceptable to have a New Scofield reference bible instead of the Old Scofield.

I had a regular KJV that I bought with my own money. Everyone else had a Ruckman Reference Bible and you were looked down upon if you weren't able to follow along with the study notes at the bottom of every page, as if it was scripture. I only went for a short time because something felt off. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone that does go to a Ruckman church. Their theology is fine in some areas and they do preach a saving Gospel.

 

[DaveXR650]

you were looked down upon if you weren't able to follow along with the study notes at the bottom of every page, as if it was scripture.

That's the way we were with Dr. Scofield. Later, I heard that people used to say that there was an extra stanza of the hymn
"The Solid Rock" that went like this:
My hope is built on nothing less,
Than Scofield's notes and Moody Press.
By the way, if you're a Spurgeon fan, the first I ever heard of Spurgeon was when I asked my fundamentalist pastor who the bearded guy was on the cover of the Sword of the Lord issue. They used to print an old classic sermon with each issue. The pastor said, "That's Spurgeon, he's sort of a Calvinist, but he's OK".

 

[Baptizo]

That's Spurgeon, he's sort of a Calvinist, but he's OK".

I am not a full five-pointer but they did teach that all Calvinists (along with Spurgeon) were satanic, cigar smoking, beer drinking dudes with long beards that did nothing but read and write books in a basement. It wasn't until I started reading Reformed material that I came to understand that Calvinists have an incredible zeal for the Lord that I admire. It's unfortunate they had to be so closed-minded but to be honest I think the Lord had lead me into a place like that because that's where my maturity level was at the time, not willing to be corrected when I'm wrong.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They tried that occasionally at the Reformed Baptist church I was at and the young women turned it into a showcase of crockpots full of vegan mulch. (Pulse, in the King James version). I think it was because they all wore pants.

Yea those crockpot’s aren’t the same as roast chickens & fried chicken (real dinners) … I’m sure there were a lot of salads and noodles and ziti.

 

[DaveXR650]

Yea those crockpot’s aren’t the same as roast chickens & fried chicken (real dinners) … I’m sure there were a lot of salads and noodles and ziti.

Salads are great, especially potato salad, although there was another one based on macaroni that was good too. But yes, fried chicken was the starting point. And we didn't neglect fruit. There was peach pie and apple pie. The way to tell if you are at a good pot luck is that if you have to have a high grade paper plate, preferably with side rails so you don't dump everything before you get to your seat - then it's a good pot luck. That's Biblical.

 

[Van]

Good post Van!

But these are not Fundamental Distinctives, they are called Baptist Distinctives (even so, not every Baptist church confesses them).

Fundamental Baptists teach them, but that is not what makes them fundamental.

While those distinctive are foundational to Baptists those same distinctive exist in non-fundamental Baptist churches.

I’ve personally have been a member of two non-fundamental churches that instructed new members about these doctrinal distictives.

Perhaps Fundamentalism has died because no one really knows what it is or how it’s defined

Rob

I provided from a linked source the IFB distinctives. You say that since the non-reformed Baptist churches mostly agree with these, that means they are NOT distinctively "fundamental." However, you did not cite a linked source with differing distinctives.

Several attempts have been made to add to "fundamentalism" extra biblical doctrines.

For example, KJV onlyism. But here is the reality,

. A significant percentage of the movement continued to use the King James Version of the Bible exclusively, though other translations—especially the New International Version, the New American Standard Bible, and the English Standard Version—were common in some churches.​

Another attempt is to add the biblical sounding doctrine of "Atonement." However since the term was not defined, the idea might be Calvinism's "limited atonement" rather than Christ's sacrifice provides the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity.

Here again are the Baptist fundamental beliefs:

• Bible as Sole Authority of Faith and Practice
• Autonomy of the Local Church
• Priesthood of Every Believer
• Two Church Ordinances: Baptism and Lord’s Supper
• Individual Soul Liberty
• Saved Church Membership
• Two Church Offices: Pastor and Deacons
• Separation of Church and State

 

[John of Japan]

Revivalistic, separatist Fundamentalism is alive and well in hundreds, maybe thousands, of churches around the world. I have preached in many of them in several countries.

 

[John of Japan]

I'd say:
Exclusive use of King James Version.
Rejection of all Calvinism.
Abstaining from all alcoholic beverages.
Separation from other denominations.
Aggressive "soul winning".
Dispensational and pre-Trib rapture teaching.

When I was one we abstained from movies in general, rock and roll music, and officially, you weren't supposed to even eat at an establishment that served alcohol, even if you didn't buy any. There was also the obsession with clothing and hair but that was the '70's and early '80's. That said, the congregation was loving, welcoming to new people, and all the prohibitions were done in a good hearted manner with even some humor and always with love. We left because we moved out of the area.

Oh yeah. They had the best pot luck dinners ever, anywhere.

Forgive me, but several in this list of doctrines ignores the historical origin of the movement. It started out with different denominations and minor doctrines, but all took a stand against liberalism (separatistic) and for the Word of God.

"Exclusive use of King James Version." Nope. To this day there are fundamentalist churches that do not use the KJV. For example, in Japan where I was for 33 years we did not have the KJV (it's English, you know ) or even a TR based Japanese NT.

"Rejection of all Calvinism." Not strictly true, since Presbyterians were among the early Fundamentalists (Machen, etc.), and even today the Bible Presbyterians (started by Carl McIntyre) are fundamentalists.

"Abstaining from all alcoholic beverages." Mostly true.

"Separation from other denominations." No, but separation from liberalism. Sometimes the early fundamentalists stayed in their denominations, fighting the liberalism from within.

Aggressive soul winning." I agree.

"Dispensational and pre-Trib rapture teaching." Not always. Some of the leading fundamentalists of the past were not Dispensationalists. John R. Rice is one example.

 

[robt.k.fall]

My sector of Fundamentalism (aka Historic Northern Baptist/NorCal FBFI) is alive and muddling along nicely, thank you very much. We are not KJVO. Nor are we Mr. Hyles' disciples.