Has the Country/Nation/Church Changed?

[saturneptune]

............................

 

[righteousdude2]

Doi Cowboy Bob and Clarabelle the Clown count? How about Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers and the masked mand and his faithful Indian companion [who usually got beat up when he obediantly wnet to town on recon for the LR]. There was also Lash LaRue, Gene Autry and Lassie and Rin Tin Tin [with Rusty and Lt. Masters].....man do I feel older than I am! :tongue3:

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Not funny.

Anyone who reads my post knows that is not what I said. You need to grow up. Your constant attacks on me are pathetic.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Doi Cowboy Bob and Clarabelle the Clown count? How about Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers and the masked mand and his faithful Indian companion [who usually got beat up when he obediantly wnet to town on recon for the LR]. There was also Lash LaRue, Gene Autry and Lassie and Rin Tin Tin [with Rusty and Lt. Masters].....man do I feel older than I am! :tongue3:

I remember all those shows! I guess I should feel older too. LOL

 

[saturneptune]

Not funny.

Anyone who reads my post knows that is not what I said. You need to grow up. Your constant attacks on me are pathetic.

It was in jest. Don't worry, I will not bother you again.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

It was in jest. Don't worry, I will not bother you again.

Thank you. That is all I ask.

 

[saturneptune]

OK, now, getting back to the op, would someone else chime in on the point of when the slide downward began, comparing the 1963 ruling by the Supreme Court to the 1973 ruling. I am not saying that the ruling taking the Lord out of the school system was good, and as history shows, it certainly had no positive effects. What I am saying is, from the point that we made the murder of the unborn the official law of the land, that respect for life took our society down into a spiral rapidly until today, we are battling the last sacred institution we have, marriage. We are on the brink of having same sex marriage legalized in all fifty states.

Even after the 1963 ruling, most American families stood firm on their moral convictions. It just seems that the ruling on abortion started a flood of immorality. None of the three events did Christianity any good, that is, taking God out of the schools, legalizing abortion, or a tolerance of same sex marriage. If our forefathers could see what we have done with their Constitution, they would turn over in their graves.

In the preamble of the Declaration of Independence, LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were given as basic human rights. When the Supreme Court legalized abortion, respect for life was destroyed. I will admit that taking the Lord out of the school system set up conditions that lead to the ruling ten years later.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Every train starts off at a crawl, and then gains momentum.

I believe the crawl was in the sixties, and the momentum was reached in the seventies.

 

[Oldtimer]

Even after the 1963 ruling, most American families stood firm on their moral convictions. It just seems that the ruling on abortion started a flood of immorality. None of the three events did Christianity any good, that is, taking God out of the schools, legalizing abortion, or a tolerance of same sex marriage. If our forefathers could see what we have done with their Constitution, they would turn over in their graves.

The floodgates of immorality didn't open with the ruling on abortion. The key to the floodgate of sexual immorality was the birth control pill.

Finally, in 1960, it became FDA approved and by 1963, 1.2 million women were using it. http://www-scf.usc.edu/~nicoleg/history.htm

The first method that had a very high degree of success, when compared to previous methods attempted through the ages. It wasn't necessarily that the various factors for the decline in morality began in the 1960's, the means to do so, with abandon, culminated in the 1960's on many fronts.

-- Get God out of schools.
-- Give freedom for fornification without fear of unwanted pregnancy.
-- Medicare's contribution to building an "entitled" society.
-- "Free Love" hippy movement & Woodstock's influence on the young.

In conjuction with the social upheaval that was coming to a head in the 1960's, there's another factor to consider.

On June 22, 1970, President Richard Nixon signed an extension of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that required the voting age to be 18 in all federal, state, and local elections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Aside from the fact that the federal government took control of another portion of states rights, lowering of the voting age, brought younger people to the polls. Younger people being affected by the changing moral landscape. The same young people who are in power today -- in schools, in government, in business, and even positions of leadership in churches.

While I agree that legalizing the murder of the unborn is a major contribution to what's happening around us, many of the foundation blocks to achive that were laid in the 1960's.

-- Ability to live together outside of wedlock without pregnancy consequences.
-- Placed the burdon of birthcontrol upon women resulting in deadbeat dad.
-- Gave women another platform to claim more "rights" to control their bodies.
-- etc.

All of this, and more, without children hearing the Word of God spoken in the classroom. At a minimum, it only took 11-12 years to have classrooms filled with children without any Biblical guidance. Mid 70's. No one teaching children, in their primary educational environment, that murder of unborn is a sin.

Seeing the results today. Schools supplying the means for "safe sex". Schools teaching ........................... whatever Satan wants taught, as God's influence (the Bible) is no longer present in the classroom.

 

[12strings]

More than 31% of children surveyed (ages 10 -17) report having seen a pornographic site on the Internet.
- 37% have received a link to sexually explicit content

I'm not sure where you got these numbers, but I notice is those who REPORT having seen these things...I suspect that the number is closer to 75% or higher..

Why my focus on schools and kids? Because these children are learning this behaviour from somewhere. Do their parents teach them to be rude to the teachers? Maybe. More likely though, the rudeness, arrogance, disrespect and hatefulness comes from elsewhere.

Why do we so often blame parents when kids do bad things? Because parents are supposed to teach our kids how to behave and be productive good people.

Women HAVE to work now. Mom and dad both have to work in most cases. So...with this happening, who's babysitting the kids? Many children come home before the parent gets off work. And they are glued to tv. Or the internet. With no parental oversite. How in the world is a parent gonna change the channel (as much of hollywood would suggest) if mom and dad are at work?

This is why I have said that since mom and dad cant change the channel, since they cant control what their kid is watching, I feel that the only alternative if for govt to do it.

And that...my friends, is the real problem.

I'm going to disagree with a few things here. I am not willing to let the parents off the hook.

1. Mom's don't have to work...It's a choice that every family must make.

2. Parents CAN control what their kids watch, at least at home...there are many ways to it, filters, controls, Blocking the internet, not having a TV or computer at all, not giving a 11-yr old a smart phone with unlimited net access. They can't control what kids see at friends houses, but they have a lot of control IF they are willing to step up and be parents.

3. The government is NEVER going to make TV dial down it's content...It's not going to happen.

4. The larger issue is that the parents are not teaching their children to respect authority, starting at home. So of course they aren't going to respect a teacher, especially if they know that even if the teacher or principle calls home, there will be no consequences from the parent. Many kids are not really raised by their parents, they are just fed and given shelter...they are raised by TV and Internet, and friends...but this is not TV's fault, or the government's, it is the parent's fault.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I would say sometime during WWII. Women got out of the house and on their own. Many of those families raised the wild ones of the 60's. From WWII we have been moving to the left. How many men in WWII and after fathered children that they know nothing of or didn't care about? When the family is weaken the nation is weaken. I believe the WWII deal put grease on the wheel to get it to roll faster and look at that wheel today.

 

[Dennis324]

Agree with Dennis totally except that women do not have to work outside the home.

Sorry, but assuming a father in the home, many of my Mennonite friends manage just fine on one paycheck. So do many others willing to live at the standard of living one paycheck affords.

So if one is willing to give up the cable and the cell phones and the eating out, live basically a 1950's level of lifestyle, it is still very doable.

Just ask all the single parents living on one paycheck.

Flame away, but my personal belief is that when mama went to work the devil came in to keep house. And now we face the consequences.

edited to add: before you call me a male chauvinist pig, let me tell you I am female.

I'm certainly not going to flame you.

 

[Dennis324]

OK, now, getting back to the op, would someone else chime in on the point of when the slide downward began, comparing the 1963 ruling by the Supreme Court to the 1973 ruling. I am not saying that the ruling taking the Lord out of the school system was good, and as history shows, it certainly had no positive effects. What I am saying is, from the point that we made the murder of the unborn the official law of the land, that respect for life took our society down into a spiral rapidly until today, we are battling the last sacred institution we have, marriage. We are on the brink of having same sex marriage legalized in all fifty states.

Even after the 1963 ruling, most American families stood firm on their moral convictions. It just seems that the ruling on abortion started a flood of immorality. None of the three events did Christianity any good, that is, taking God out of the schools, legalizing abortion, or a tolerance of same sex marriage. If our forefathers could see what we have done with their Constitution, they would turn over in their graves.

In the preamble of the Declaration of Independence, LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were given as basic human rights. When the Supreme Court legalized abortion, respect for life was destroyed. I will admit that taking the Lord out of the school system set up conditions that lead to the ruling ten years later.

I blame the so-called "Summer of Love". ('67). And the Woodstock generation. A movement took hold where young people began to follow the philosophy of free love, breakdown of the natural family, live in communes, break the law, take drugs, and generally rebel against their families who grew up in the 40s and 50s. Their heroes were people like Timothy Leary, Abby Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Bill Ayers (who still teaches I think at the U of Illinois) Bernardine Dohrn, and people like this.

They saw nothing wrong with taking drugs, hopping in and out of bed with practically anyone,

These hippies grew up and are now the movers and shakers of our world now. Or at least they raised their children by their values and those children have grown up and are now politicians, network execs, etc.

And yes, I agree also about the SCOTUS rulings on R v Wade. That decade changed everything and we are still feeling the damage it did.

 

[Dennis324]

I'm going to disagree with a few things here. I am not willing to let the parents off the hook.

1. Mom's don't have to work...It's a choice that every family must make.

2. Parents CAN control what their kids watch, at least at home...there are many ways to it, filters, controls, Blocking the internet, not having a TV or computer at all, not giving a 11-yr old a smart phone with unlimited net access. They can't control what kids see at friends houses, but they have a lot of control IF they are willing to step up and be parents.

3. The government is NEVER going to make TV dial down it's content...It's not going to happen.

4. The larger issue is that the parents are not teaching their children to respect authority, starting at home. So of course they aren't going to respect a teacher, especially if they know that even if the teacher or principle calls home, there will be no consequences from the parent. Many kids are not really raised by their parents, they are just fed and given shelter...they are raised by TV and Internet, and friends...but this is not TV's fault, or the government's, it is the parent's fault.

All that is possible I guess. I'm not totally letting parents off the hook either. But the sad fact is that for whatever reason, many parents DON'T monitor tv, cellphones and the internet. And if their choices only affected themselves and their kids, oh well.

But these kids grow up and vote. They grow up and teach. They grow up and become tv executives and politicians and other people who's choices affect our lives directly.

So if those parents aren't going to do the right thing by their kids, and if those kids decisions affect you and YOUR kids...what is to be done? Nothing?

Someone mentioned earlier that we are facing the likelihood of gay marriage now. I'll add to this the schools mandating certain programs that your kids have to take. Some of these things may not be something Christian parents want their kids to participate in.

Also, re: mom's not working. This may be true in some cases. But I submit that most work because they don't want to live in a hut with no tv or running water and have to support their family.

 

[12strings]

All that is possible I guess. I'm not totally letting parents off the hook either. But the sad fact is that for whatever reason, many parents DON'T monitor tv, cellphones and the internet. And if their choices only affected themselves and their kids, oh well.

But these kids grow up and vote. They grow up and teach. They grow up and become tv executives and politicians and other people who's choices affect our lives directly.

Actually, they grow up and have more kids just like them, and worse...In my rural Indiana town, I can tell you from hospital reports that a bit over 50% of the children born at our local hospital test POSITIVE for some form of drug or alcohol in their system....50%!!! That does not engender confidence in how our city will look in 20 years.

So if those parents aren't going to do the right thing by their kids, and if those kids decisions affect you and YOUR kids...what is to be done? Nothing?

That's exactly what I expect to happen in the vast majority of cases. Those Christian families who do take parenting seriously will have to wisely and consistently do their best to balance shielding their children from certain Media, while at the same time educating them about what is out there, and on what a Christian response to it looks like...Just because a teen sees a teen back-talk his mother on TV doesn't mean the teen has to do it...He/she can be taught to evaluate what they see in Culture without mimicking it mindlessly. But...schools can't do that...Parent's have to do it.

Someone mentioned earlier that we are facing the likelihood of gay marriage now. I'll add to this the schools mandating certain programs that your kids have to take. Some of these things may not be something Christian parents want their kids to participate in.

Likelihood of gay marriage = It's here, and it's not going away.

I will not tell parents where to educate their children, but I do think the increase in homeschooling is in part because of what you have described here. I have about 3 years before I need to decide on schooling for my kids.
BUT...ALL parents need to be very involved in their child's education, no matter what schooling option they choose.

All that to say: Relax, It's much worse than you think!

 

[saturneptune]

I blame the so-called "Summer of Love". ('67). And the Woodstock generation. A movement took hold where young people began to follow the philosophy of free love, breakdown of the natural family, live in communes, break the law, take drugs, and generally rebel against their families who grew up in the 40s and 50s. Their heroes were people like Timothy Leary, Abby Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Bill Ayers (who still teaches I think at the U of Illinois) Bernardine Dohrn, and people like this.

They saw nothing wrong with taking drugs, hopping in and out of bed with practically anyone,

These hippies grew up and are now the movers and shakers of our world now. Or at least they raised their children by their values and those children have grown up and are now politicians, network execs, etc.

And yes, I agree also about the SCOTUS rulings on R v Wade. That decade changed everything and we are still feeling the damage it did.

Very good post, but I would like to relate what I saw in the 60s where I grew up in Mississippi. Yes, across the nation the Vietnam War, Civil Rights, free love, and the hippies were setting the trend for the nation nationally. However, as a kid from age say 10-20 that decade, I saw the mistreatment of African-Americans by the state and local governments. I went through the separate restrooms, restaurants, swimming pools, movies, and many other aspects of daily life treating these folks as second class citizens. One thing I recall very vividly, as a twelve year old child, is being on a city bus. I was riding it to town. When I got on, I was the only white person on the bus. There was a white line half way down the aisle of the bus. In the front, there were all the seats empty except the one I sat in. As I looked around, I saw the back packed with African-Americans. In particular, and this is what struck me to the core, was an old lady with a cane standing in the aisle with a cane, barely holding her balance. Again, there were all these empty seats in the front. As our eyes met, I never felt so ashamed. From that moment on, I decided I wanted nothing to do with this garbage, and felt an intense hatred for those enforcing and creating such a situation. I felt that there was a special place in hell for these people.

From that day on, I cheered on the Civil Rights movement. That is my basis of defining the 60s. Granted, I was isolated from the drugs, free love, Woodstock and all the rest. But this is what I lived through. That is not even telling the stories of the turmoil of integrating the schools. There was no excuse for the mistreatment of God's Creation in such a manner.

No, I did not become a flaming liberal, as in twelve Presidential elections, I have voted Republican ten times.

 

[nodak]

The single parents I know are not living in huts with no running water and are living on one paycheck.

Ditto the married couples choosing one paycheck living.

Realistically, it may mean staying in a rented two bedroom apt. or purchasing a smaller home. It may mean owning one car, cooking from scratch, not having every electronic gizmo known to mankind, not eating out or doing a lot of going to the movies, etc.

But it can and is being done. Don't insult those doing so by suggesting they live in squalor.

And read the "Two Income Trap." Surprising how much of that second income goes to pay for the job that produces it and to the government. Surprising how many families learn they could have more spendable income with one paycheck instead of two.

 

[Dennis324]

Very good post, but I would like to relate what I saw in the 60s where I grew up in Mississippi. Yes, across the nation the Vietnam War, Civil Rights, free love, and the hippies were setting the trend for the nation nationally. However, as a kid from age say 10-20 that decade, I saw the mistreatment of African-Americans by the state and local governments. I went through the separate restrooms, restaurants, swimming pools, movies, and many other aspects of daily life treating these folks as second class citizens. One thing I recall very vividly, as a twelve year old child, is being on a city bus. I was riding it to town. When I got on, I was the only white person on the bus. There was a white line half way down the aisle of the bus. In the front, there were all the seats empty except the one I sat in. As I looked around, I saw the back packed with African-Americans. In particular, and this is what struck me to the core, was an old lady with a cane standing in the aisle with a cane, barely holding her balance. Again, there were all these empty seats in the front. As our eyes met, I never felt so ashamed. From that moment on, I decided I wanted nothing to do with this garbage, and felt an intense hatred for those enforcing and creating such a situation. I felt that there was a special place in hell for these people.

From that day on, I cheered on the Civil Rights movement. That is my basis of defining the 60s. Granted, I was isolated from the drugs, free love, Woodstock and all the rest. But this is what I lived through. That is not even telling the stories of the turmoil of integrating the schools. There was no excuse for the mistreatment of God's Creation in such a manner.

No, I did not become a flaming liberal, as in twelve Presidential elections, I have voted Republican ten times.

I'm with ya there. Lol! I was real young at the time but I do remember some of the stuff going on during the Civil Rights era protests. In Alabama, at my age, I wasn't really isolated from racial prejudice, but I do think the hippie stuff was something we heard about on the news. It seemed like it was mostly out west or up north. Yes there were people running around with long hair, but I'm talking about the Haight Ashbury scene...that sort of stuff wasn't seen where I lived. I grew up in the sort of Okie from Muskogee atmosphere so to speak, so I guess I was lucky.

 

[Dennis324]

The single parents I know are not living in huts with no running water and are living on one paycheck.

Ditto the married couples choosing one paycheck living.

Realistically, it may mean staying in a rented two bedroom apt. or purchasing a smaller home. It may mean owning one car, cooking from scratch, not having every electronic gizmo known to mankind, not eating out or doing a lot of going to the movies, etc.

But it can and is being done. Don't insult those doing so by suggesting they live in squalor.

And read the "Two Income Trap." Surprising how much of that second income goes to pay for the job that produces it and to the government. Surprising how many families learn they could have more spendable income with one paycheck instead of two.

I'm not insulting people. I'm on welfare myself.

I dunno what its like where you live but its tough here,. When I say wives have to work these days, its only because the economy is so terrible. Its not an insult.

 

[nodak]

The economy is great someplaces and toast in others.

The family that chooses to live on one paycheck may be choosing to move.

Simply put, Artesia NM, Odessa Tx, Williston ND can't get enough good hands at a variety of jobs.