Has the SBC outlived it's usefullness

[DMorgan]

As I ponder the developments over the past 2 decades, and the growth in divisiveness within the convention, I wonder if the SBC has outlived its purpose? Has the bureaucracy within the convention become a weight that prevents it from fulfilling the Great Commission? Can each body of believers at the local or state level do a better job? I would appreciate the board members thoughts.

 

[JonC]

As I ponder the developments over the past 2 decades, and the growth in divisiveness within the convention, I wonder if the SBC has outlived its purpose? Has the bureaucracy within the convention become a weight that prevents it from fulfilling the Great Commission? Can each body of believers at the local or state level do a better job? I would appreciate the board members thoughts.

I have been wondering the same thing for some time now. I wonder that every time I see the Lifeway buildings downtown Nashville.

Ultimately, I don't think that the SBC has outlived it's usefulness as much as it has outgrown what I would consider effective stewardship.

 

[Bluefalcon]

As I ponder the developments over the past 2 decades, and the growth in divisiveness within the convention, I wonder if the SBC has outlived its purpose? Has the bureaucracy within the convention become a weight that prevents it from fulfilling the Great Commission? Can each body of believers at the local or state level do a better job? I would appreciate the board members thoughts.

If you think the six SBC seminaries and IMB and NAMB have outlived their usefulness, then yes, throw away the convention. Almost everything else is done at the local, associational, or state convention levels anyway. (BTW, I don't think the convention has lost its usefulness, and I also think that the OP would benefit in perspective had the last 5 decades been taken into account when gauging the emotional level of divisiveness.)

 

[Revmitchell]

Can each body of believers at the local or state level do a better job? I would appreciate the board members thoughts.

On their own? No the convention has the best missionary system in the world.

 

[John of Japan]

On their own? No the convention has the best missionary system in the world.

I appreciate your loyalty to the SBC, but I think you are mistaken. I'm not SBC so I won't get into the OP, but your statement is not according to the facts. I submit to you that the faith missions method is better. As of 2009 there were 3898 SBC missionaries overseas (1 per 11.3 churches) from 44,696 churches, as compared to 4877 from 13,719 IFB churches (1 per 2.8 churches). Average annual giving per church was $4,426 for SBC churches as opposed to $13,295.98 for ind. churches. (Figures are from an independent survey commissioned for Church Still Works, by Paul Chappell and Clayton Reed, 2009, p. 30.)

These figures do not take into account the 500 missionaries recently asked to retire by the IMB, or the fact that there are many SBC missionaries who are administrative or educational personnel and not church planters or evangelists. For example, as of 1989 there was an SBC plan for Japan to decrease the 92 units (couple or single) to 80, including 5 staff members, 3 admin and 10 teachers at various levels (Southern Baptist Missions in Japan, by Calvin Parker, p. 213). This means that 18 out of 80 are not church planters, or 22.5%. However, IFB missionaries are by practice almost all involved in church planting.

So, the SBC missions system is not the best. Faith missions do much better according to these figures.

 

[TCassidy]

The Convention is no longer a convention of messengers from the local congregations but has taken on a life of its own.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Convention's support of the seminaries is a very important function and should be, along with the Cooperative Program, the center-piece of Convention activities.

The rest, with the possible exception of publication efforts, can better be a function of the state and local associations.

 

[Revmitchell]

I appreciate your loyalty to the SBC, but I think you are mistaken. I'm not SBC so I won't get into the OP, but your statement is not according to the facts. I submit to you that the faith missions method is better. As of 2009 there were 3898 SBC missionaries overseas (1 per 11.3 churches) from 44,696 churches, as compared to 4877 from 13,719 IFB churches (1 per 2.8 churches). Average annual giving per church was $4,426 for SBC churches as opposed to $13,295.98 for ind. churches. (Figures are from an independent survey commissioned for Church Still Works, by Paul Chappell and Clayton Reed, 2009, p. 30.)

These figures do not take into account the 500 missionaries recently asked to retire by the IMB, or the fact that there are many SBC missionaries who are administrative or educational personnel and not church planters or evangelists. For example, as of 1989 there was an SBC plan for Japan to decrease the 92 units (couple or single) to 80, including 5 staff members, 3 admin and 10 teachers at various levels (Southern Baptist Missions in Japan, by Calvin Parker, p. 213). This means that 18 out of 80 are not church planters, or 22.5%. However, IFB missionaries are by practice almost all involved in church planting.

So, the SBC missions system is not the best. Faith missions do much better according to these figures.

When our missionaries go out in the field they have a salary, benefits, and retirement. Ind. Baptists do not and they also have to continually come home to raise support. So yes it is the best system in the world. Further during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina there were only three primary organizations allowed in the area, those were FEMA, Red Cross, and Southern Baptist Disaster Relief. We respond as missionaries in multiple ways in our convention.

Further, the self serving stats your presented and put together by Paul Chappell do not include everything we do as Southern Baptists. I suggest you and Mr. Chappell do some more homework.

 

[John of Japan]

When our missionaries go out in the field they have a salary, benefits, and retirement. Ind. Baptists do not and they also have to continually come home to raise support. So yes it is the best system in the world. Further during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina there were only three primary organizations allowed in the area, those were FEMA, Red Cross, and Southern Baptist Disaster Relief. We respond as missionaries in multiple ways in our convention.

May I also suggest that you yourself do not have all of the facts? While I was an IFB missionary I also had through the mission a salary, a medical program, a retirement account, etc. As for furlough, it is not all about raising more support. There were furloughs where I did not need more support. The main purpose of furlough is to report to supporting churches, like Paul and Barnabas did in Acts 14:26-27. Do SBC missionaries do that? You know the answer.

And following the Great Kanto earthquake in Japan, IFB missionaries were among the very first on the scene bringing food and other help, including copies of the Gospel of John my team has translated. And that's foreign missions, not American disasters.

I admire your zeal for the SBC, but am disappointed at your reaction. All I did was give stats, which speak for themselves.

Further, the self serving stats your presented and put together by Paul Chappell do not include everything we do as Southern Baptists. I suggest you and Mr. Chappell do some more homework.

How can an independent survey and stats from a book by an SBC author be self-serving?

 

[Revmitchell]

I admire your zeal for the SBC, but am disappointed at your reaction.

I am puzzled. Why?

 

[Van]

Not too long ago there was a terrible fire near Clearlake California. As I drove through one of the nearby towns, I noted a Christian aid station, from those dreaded, penny pinching Southern Baptists. But knowing how many folks here are supportive, it brought tears to my eyes.

 

[John of Japan]

I am puzzled. Why?

Why what, the admiration or the reaction? I always admire loyalty to a good cause, but your reaction was emotional, not logical.

 

[Revmitchell]

Why what, the admiration or the reaction? I always admire loyalty to a good cause, but your reaction was emotional, not logical.

How so?

 

[Jeremy Seth]

What would a leadership restructure look like to counteract bureaucracy?
Is there a period where the convention was at its best balance?

 

[John of Japan]

How so?

"Self-serving"? That's an emotional reaction when the survey was independent.

And your statements about what ind. Baptist missionaries have through their boards? That was off the cuff and not informed.

 

[Revmitchell]

"Self-serving"? That's an emotional reaction when the survey was independent.

And your statements about what ind. Baptist missionaries have through their boards? That was off the cuff and not informed.

Uh no, I grew up in independent baptist churches. I think you read too much into my post. However, it was a reaction to your stats that fail to present the whole and accurate picture. There is much much more going on in the SBC than your stats present. My posts were my opinion and more matter of fact than emotional. I have little concern over how the independent Baptists view the SBC. They have been misrepresenting the SBC for many years.

 

[John of Japan]

Uh no, I grew up in independent baptist churches.

Sorry, that in no way makes you knowledgeable about ind. Baptist missions.

I think you read too much into my post. However, it was a reaction to your stats that fail to present the whole and accurate picture. There is much much more going on in the SBC than your stats present. My posts were my opinion and more matter of fact than emotional. I have little concern over how the independent Baptists view the SBC. They have been misrepresenting the SBC for many years.

I suspect that your definition of "missions" is much broader than mine, if you are a typical SBC pastor. I do not consider typical charity work (read hurricane relief) in the homeland to be "missions" in any way. From what I've read, though, many in the SBC consider missions to include a wide variety of charity work.

 

[Revmitchell]

Sorry, that in no way makes you knowledgeable about ind. Baptist missions.


I suspect that your definition of "missions" is much broader than mine, if you are a typical SBC pastor. I do not consider typical charity work (read hurricane relief) in the homeland to be "missions" in any way. From what I've read, though, many in the SBC consider missions to include a wide variety of charity work.

We consider it missions because it is not just typical charity work. We do charity work for the purpose of sharing the gospel. As an SBC DR chaplain the last trip I went on to Louisiana to do mud out work on the bayou we led 16 people to the Lord in 10 days. Again, independent Baptists often speak of the SBC without full knowledge of what they are talking about.

 

[DMorgan]

What would a leadership restructure look like to counteract bureaucracy?
Is there a period where the convention was at its best balance?

Jeremy I am not sure. Perhaps turning more functions over to state associations which are much closer to the individual churches. The Seminaries can be funded in the same manner. As to a Mission oversight organization, I do not know if this can be retained, or also kept at the State and church level. It is just a question I have had running around in my head. My Grandfather, 1 Uncle and 2 cousins were/are SB Preachers, I am not, but in my opinion the Convention is growing into something it was never intended to be.

 

[John of Japan]

We consider it missions because it is not just typical charity work. We do charity work for the purpose of sharing the gospel. As an SBC DR chaplain the last trip I went on to Louisiana to do mud out work on the bayou we led 16 people to the Lord in 10 days.

Praise the Lord for the souls you saw saved. However, simply sharing the Gospel, as vital as that is, is not missions. When I went out and canvassed for my church's upcoming VBC on Monday, I didn't consider it missions. Missions is fulfilling Matthew's great commission, and thus planting churches for God's glory. To say that doing charity, even with witnessing, is doing missions is to me to trivialize the great work that cross-cultural missionaries, including SBC missionaries, do around the world to establish the Lord's work through winning souls and organizing them into churches.

Again, independent Baptists often speak of the SBC without full knowledge of what they are talking about.

So he says after factually misrepresenting ind. Baptist missions.

 

[Revmitchell]

To say that doing charity, even with witnessing, is doing missions is to me to trivialize the great work that cross-cultural missionaries, including SBC missionaries, do around the world to establish the Lord's work through winning souls and organizing them into churches.

And this is one small reason I am no longer part of an independent Baptist Church. Souls being saved is never a trivial matter and it is always missions. Sad.