Hate?

Well I guess this conversation is over because I certainly can't compete with your greek subjunctive indicative double-talk.

So I guess you've successfully explained to us then that the word BECAUSE does not mean BECAUSE, even though every english bible I could find on line, about 20, used the word BECAUSE, a word of order, a word that shows cause and effect.

I suppose also that "CAN NOT BELIEVE" in John 12 doesn't mean "CAN NOT BELIEVE".

I would have loved to engage you in that debate, but obviously the subjuntive indicative just isn't ther, or is it? And since I don't know what any of that means, we poor english speakers don't know our bibles.

Hmmm...think I'll go over to the bible versions forum and do some posting there.

 

I'm not trying to double-talk you or to offend you in any way. If I have done so it was not by intent.

I offer this humbly, but every English Bible has the same glitch - they're in English. You can not exactly translate from one langauge to another. Although Greek is similar to English in many ways, it is still another language and it's syntax and grammatical constructions sometimes take a back seat to readability in the translated language. Often, words are added to make the sense more apparent or to clarify (especially when using articles or certain pronouns).

Often, when we refer back to the original langauge, we find that what we thought we knew we really didn't. I say that out of experience - I learned the hard way.

Honestly, I didn't mean to offend you and I feel I did. Please accept my apology.

 

Apology accepted and offered. I admit my head was getting a little hot. You should have seen what got deleted before my edit timed out.

I do find arminian theology offensive to God. It takes from His glory. I find it an utter blasphemy to accuse God of failure. To assign Satan power over God is unacceptable. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, for my pastor did it just last night.

Now I said earlier that that bible answers the questions I proposed IN PLAIN LANGUAGE. What you've attempted to do is refute the notion that the language is plain. YOU'VE ATTEMPTED A DIVERSION, AN EVASION OF THE ISSUE. I talked to you in plain language, and you've made the clear understanding of the word incomprehensable.

You can go to the original language all you want, but it will always come out BECAUSE. It's a word of order, that shows a relationship between cause and effect.

Can you deny a cause/effect relationship in the verse?

You might impress a neophyte, or even yourself, with some knowledge of greek verb-types, but I can assure you that you waste them on me.

You can not deny, in any language, the relationship of the one phrase to the other. And you can not change "CAN NOT BELIEVE" to any other meaning, in any language.

And just to show you that I'm no longer angry, here's a smiley face.

 

No really, I am laughing now. And not at you, but at me.

 

Since all of us sin from time to time, all of us are workers of iniquity from time to time. Does God hate it when I sin? You bet. Does He withhold his love from me? No. He never has so long as I've been on this earth. Does He withhold grace from me? Yes. He withheld salvation from me until I came to know His Son, and he has from time to time withheld favor abd blessings upon me when I've chosen not to listen to Him.