Have a Beer! It may be sinful NOT TO!

[Luke2427]

Michael Clark Duncan died this past weekend. I like him as an actor. I'm a big guy like he was in that I am both fat and muscled (getting more of the former and less of the latter by the day though unfortunately).

So I found this article that talks about things you ought to do to combat- listen to this very closely- THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN- heart disease.

I think it is interesting that the number one killer is NOT- I repeat NOT- alcohol related.

Yet, one of the BEST ways to combat the NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN is WITH ALCOHOL:

Here's what the article said:

8. Have a beer. According to a recent review of more than 18 studies on booze, beer is just as good for your heart as vino. Drinking a little more than a pint of beer a day could make you 30 percent less likely than non-drinkers to suffer from stroke, heart attacks and heart disease, researchers found. (Just don’t overdo it. Moderate drinking—the healthy kind—is defined as no more than two alcoholic beverages a day for men or one for women.)

Now I know a lot of fundy websites and SotL articles will blindly reject this but for thinking people this ought to be compelling.

THIRTY PERCENT!!!!!!!

Did you hear that?


THIRTY PERCENT!!!!

It may be a far, far, far, FAR worse sin to NOT drink than TO drink (especially since it is not a sin AT ALL to drink responsibly according to the Word of God).




PS: I challenge the teetotalers to follow a bedrock rule of hermeneutics that all thoughtful, informed Christians respect as you try to make a case AGAINST the responsible consumption of alcohol.

Here is the rule:

Don't build doctrine out of Proverbs. Proverbs are not immutable truths- they are most often general rules with all kinds of exceptions. For example: The sluggard does NOT always come to poverty and diligence does NOT always make rich and well trained children DO sometimes depart when they are old.

I contend that no one with enough bible IQ to know that you can't establish doctrine solely from the Proverbs will argue for teetotalism.

I contend that only people with a very LOW Bible IQ who do not understand how to interpret different genres of biblical literature will attempt to argue FOR teetotalism.

Let the games begin! (In Bane's voice) :thumbs:

 

[psalms109:31]

It depends where you are and who your making stumble.

In Germany they have beer at Baptist functions!!

 

[Jerome]

Duncan was engaged to Baptist pastor Omarosa Manigault:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-manigault-wedding-year-rep-article-1.1151458

the breakout star from NBC’s “The Apprentice” found her fiancée unresponsive around 2 a.m. on July 13.

Manigault performed CPR on the hulking 6-foot-5, 325 pound actor until paramedics arrived and rushed him to the hospital.

“The Oscar-nominated actor suffered a myocardial infarction on July 13 and never fully recovered,” Duncan’s publicist said in a statement Monday. “Manigault is grateful for all of your prayers and asks for privacy at this time.”

Duncan, 54, passed away Monday at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles after nearly eight weeks of treatment.

“She had doctors come from all over the country and the world to see him,” Clarke said.

 

[quantumfaith]

Michael Clark Duncan died this past weekend. I like him as an actor. I'm a big guy like he was in that I am both fat and muscled (getting more of the former and less of the latter by the day though unfortunately).

So I found this article that talks about things you ought to do to combat- listen to this very closely- THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN- heart disease.

I think it is interesting that the number one killer is NOT- I repeat NOT- alcohol related.

Yet, one of the BEST ways to combat the NUMBER ONE KILLER OF MEN is WITH ALCOHOL:

Here's what the article said:



Now I know a lot of fundy websites and SotL articles will blindly reject this but for thinking people this ought to be compelling.

THIRTY PERCENT!!!!!!!

Did you hear that?


THIRTY PERCENT!!!!

It may be a far, far, far, FAR worse sin to NOT drink than TO drink (especially since it is not a sin AT ALL to drink responsibly according to the Word of God).




PS: I challenge the teetotalers to follow a bedrock rule of hermeneutics that all thoughtful, informed Christians respect as you try to make a case AGAINST the responsible consumption of alcohol.

Here is the rule:

Don't build doctrine out of Proverbs. Proverbs are not immutable truths- they are most often general rules with all kinds of exceptions. For example: The sluggard does NOT always come to poverty and diligence does NOT always make rich and well trained children DO sometimes depart when they are old.

I contend that no one with enough bible IQ to know that you can't establish doctrine solely from the Proverbs will argue for teetotalism.

I contend that only people with a very LOW Bible IQ who do not understand how to interpret different genres of biblical literature will attempt to argue FOR teetotalism.

Let the games begin! (In Bane's voice) :thumbs:

Luke, if the research is both valid and reliable (words with specific meaning), then 30% is what we call in mathematics "statistically significant". In which case we would be able to reject the null hypothesis. (Dependent upon the hypothesis construction)

 

[Revmitchell]

Beer is fine so long as it causes no one to stumble and you do not get even a slight buzz.

 

[Aaron]

It is always a sin to violate one's conscience. Is this life so precious that we can justify placing a stumbling block in the way of weak Christians for an illusory 30% chance of missing a stroke or heart attack?

Perhaps one should focus more on resisting his gluttonnous propensities than on attempting to counter affect them by filling one's self with wine.

 

[awaken]

Someone's opinion... "I wasn't drinking to the point of drunkenness, so I believed that I wasn't violating the Scripture passages which say that drunkenness is a sin."

People often say that Jesus turned the water into wine at a wedding, and that Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach problems, etc., so they assumed that moderate drinking was acceptable in the Bible.

Most christians, if they are honest.. God does prompt us to examine our motives for drinking alcohol, and then He prompted us to dig deeper and find out what the Bible really says about alcohol. In my research of this...it led me to the surprising conclusion that the Bible doesn't condone drinking any form of alcohol for pleasure or enjoyment. There are passages which might allow for alcohol to be used for truly medicinal purposes, but notice that the motive for using alcohol in a medicinal way is different than the motive for drinking alcohol for enjoyment.

After reaching that conclusion several years ago I encourage all to stop drinking...and it can be done with the help of God to overcome our flesh.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I'll just say one thing in response to this thread:

Before I got saved, I used to drink alcohol of all types, but it was never for the medicinal benefits, although we used to joke that it was. Nor did any of my friends drink for that reason. In fact, we drank to get a buzz. But there are health benefits to wine, that is no doubt. Grape juice may give you the same benefits. From the Mayo Clinic website:

Does grape juice offer the same heart benefits as red wine?

Answer

from Martha Grogan, M.D.

Possibly. Some research studies suggest that red and purple grape juices may provide some of the same heart benefits of red wine, including:
Reducing the risk of blood clots
Reducing low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or "bad") cholesterol
Preventing damage to blood vessels in your heart
Helping maintain a healthy blood pressure

Grapes are rich in health-protecting antioxidants, including resveratrol and flavonoids. These antioxidants are found mainly in the skin, stem, leaf and seeds of grapes, rather than in their pulp. The amount of antioxidants in grapes depends on many factors, including the kind of grape, its geographic origin and how it's processed. Dark red and purple grapes tend to be higher in antioxidants than are white or green grapes. Likewise, the level of antioxidants such as resveratrol found in wine varies, with higher levels in red wine.

Besides grape juice, other grape products may offer health benefits, including dealcoholized wine, grape extracts and grape powder.

Keep in mind that it's also beneficial to eat whole grapes — not just grape juice. Some research suggests that whole grapes deliver the same amount of antioxidants that are in grape juice and wine but have the added benefit of providing dietary fiber.

Alcohol also has negative affects:

Issues with Alcohol
Most red wines contain about 10 percent alcohol, although some contain as high as 14 percent. Despite being able to reduce the "stickiness" of blood platelet cells involved in clotting, most health experts agree that alcohol cannot be considered healthy. Alcohol has a depressant affect on the brain; it reduces cognitive function and coordination; its breakdown products are toxic, and are especially harmful to the liver, pancreas and nerves; and it is habit forming. As such, the negative health consequences of alcohol may greatly negate the benefits of red wine, which means that high quality grape juice made by crushing dark-colored grapes with seeds may offer more health benefits overall.

So keep on drinking your alcohol, but don't kid yourself that you are doing for health benefits. Just be honest that you like the way it makes you feel.

 

[InTheLight]

Someone's opinion... "I wasn't drinking to the point of drunkenness, so I believed that I wasn't violating the Scripture passages which say that drunkenness is a sin."

People often say that Jesus turned the water into wine at a wedding, and that Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach problems, etc., so they assumed that moderate drinking was acceptable in the Bible.

There are passages which might allow for alcohol to be used for truly medicinal purposes, but notice that the motive for using alcohol in a medicinal way is different than the motive for drinking alcohol for enjoyment.

After reaching that conclusion several years ago I encourage all to stop drinking...and it can be done with the help of God to overcome our flesh.

Paul says it is OK for deacons and older women to drink wine in moderation, but bishops are not to drink any wine (abstain.)

1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Tim 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

 

[awaken]

Paul says it is OK for deacons and older women to drink wine in moderation, but bishops are not to drink any wine (abstain.)

1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Tim 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

In 1 Timothy 3:8 (above), Paul said that deacons are to be men "not indulging in much wine." The word "indulging" is the NIV's translation of the Greek word prosecho, and in all of the 27 occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in the sense of "drinking" or "using" or "indulging." It's always used in the sense of paying attention to something, or being on your guard against something, or being devoted to something, or ministering (only in Hebrews 7:13). In 1 Timothy 3:8, Paul was not saying that it's acceptable for deacons to indulge in a moderate amount of wine, but instead he was listing certain qualifications for the type of person who is allowed to be a deacon. A person who is "devoted" to much wine or who "pays attention" to much wine, etc., is disqualified from serving as a deacon. This is all that Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:8. Paul did not say anything about what types of activities a deacon is "allowed" to participate in, such as indulging in a moderate amount of wine.

In Titus 2:3, Paul said that older women must not be addicted to much wine. Does this imply that they can drink a moderate amount of wine? Imagine a young girl who runs to her daddy, crying because her older brother was being mean to her. The dad chastises the boy and says, "You were extremely unfair to your little sister," so the boy apologizes and says that in the future he'll be moderately unfair to his sister. Is that what the dad or the sister wanted? Notice that the boy took his dad's words completely literally and came to a conclusion which was the opposite of the dad's intention. In the same way, if we take Paul's statement completely literally when he said that older women must not be addicted to much wine, then the logical conclusion is that it's acceptable for older women to be addicted to a moderate amount of wine. Since the entire Bible strongly condemns alcohol in any form and any amount, and since Paul taught against being enslaved by anything but Christ (Titus 3:3), it would be erroneous for us to conclude that Paul approved of anyone being enslaved by a moderate amount of alcohol. Even if we want to believe that Titus 2:3 allows for a moderate use of alcohol, notice that Paul was very specific that his comments only apply to older women. In addition, in Titus 2:2, Paul said that older men should be nephalion and sophrona (strictly sober in body, in order that they may be sober in mind), and then he said that older women should do likewise. This indicates that older women should also be sober in body and mind by abstaining from alcohol.

 

[InTheLight]

In 1 Timothy 3:8 (above), Paul said that deacons are to be men "not indulging in much wine." The word "indulging" is the NIV's translation of the Greek word prosecho, and in all of the 27 occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in the sense of "drinking" or "using" or "indulging." It's always used in the sense of paying attention to something, or being on your guard against something, or being devoted to something, or ministering (only in Hebrews 7:13). In 1 Timothy 3:8, Paul was not saying that it's acceptable for deacons to indulge in a moderate amount of wine, but instead he was listing certain qualifications for the type of person who is allowed to be a deacon. A person who is "devoted" to much wine or who "pays attention" to much wine, etc., is disqualified from serving as a deacon. This is all that Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:8. Paul did not say anything about what types of activities a deacon is "allowed" to participate in, such as indulging in a moderate amount of wine.

In Titus 2:3, Paul said that older women must not be addicted to much wine. Does this imply that they can drink a moderate amount of wine? Imagine a young girl who runs to her daddy, crying because her older brother was being mean to her. The dad chastises the boy and says, "You were extremely unfair to your little sister," so the boy apologizes and says that in the future he'll be moderately unfair to his sister. Is that what the dad or the sister wanted? Notice that the boy took his dad's words completely literally and came to a conclusion which was the opposite of the dad's intention. In the same way, if we take Paul's statement completely literally when he said that older women must not be addicted to much wine, then the logical conclusion is that it's acceptable for older women to be addicted to a moderate amount of wine. Since the entire Bible strongly condemns alcohol in any form and any amount, and since Paul taught against being enslaved by anything but Christ (Titus 3:3), it would be erroneous for us to conclude that Paul approved of anyone being enslaved by a moderate amount of alcohol. Even if we want to believe that Titus 2:3 allows for a moderate use of alcohol, notice that Paul was very specific that his comments only apply to older women. In addition, in Titus 2:2, Paul said that older men should be nephalion and sophrona (strictly sober in body, in order that they may be sober in mind), and then he said that older women should do likewise. This indicates that older women should also be sober in body and mind by abstaining from alcohol.

Nice try, but a plain reading of the text is all that is necessary. A moderate amount of alcohol is not enslaving. The Bible does not condemn alcohol in any form or any amount. There were drink offerings of beer and wine in the Old Testament, and God will serve us fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb (Isaiah 25:6)

 

[USN2Pulpit]

the Bible doesn't condone drinking any form of alcohol for pleasure or enjoyment.

First let me say that I enjoyed reading what you wrote - and agree with what you said. It was a refreshing personal analysis, and I appreciate your testimony on the matter and am in total agreement.

However, being objective, if we take your quote above to its logical conclusion, then we can rightly say like the JW's, we shouldn't celebrate birthdays, since the only birthday celebrations in the Bible were drunken debaucherous celebrations. And forget about Christmas.

 

[awaken]

So what does the Word "Wine" Mean to you?

 

[awaken]

Nice try, but a plain reading of the text is all that is necessary. A moderate amount of alcohol is not enslaving. The Bible does not condemn alcohol in any form or any amount. There were drink offerings of beer and wine in the Old Testament, and God will serve us fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb (Isaiah 25:6)

How do you know it is fermented? What scripture are you refering to in the OT?

 

[InTheLight]

How do you know it is fermented?

By definition "aged wine" is fermented. (Isaiah 25:6)

What scripture are you refering to in the OT?

Numbers 28:7

7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the Lord at the sanctuary. [NIV]

 

[mont974x4]

Wine is also good for you. It's been studied as a way to fight osteoporosis.


Everyone seems to assume the "weaker brother" is the one struggling with alcohol addiction. My experience is that the weaker brother is usually the one struggling with legalism.

 

[awaken]

Wine is also good for you. It's been studied as a way to fight osteoporosis.


Everyone seems to assume the "weaker brother" is the one struggling with alcohol addiction. My experience is that the weaker brother is usually the one struggling with legalism.

Very good observation!
I guess with everything there is good!

 

[Greektim]

Paul says it is OK for deacons and older women to drink wine in moderation, but bishops are not to drink any wine (abstain.)

1 Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

1 Tim 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

It is not a total abstinence from wine. It is a qualification for not being controlled by wine. The KJV missed this one. It is another periphrasis for drunk. Similar to the periphrasis for "husband of one wife." It could mean a couple of things, but it is still a round-about way to mean either faithful husband or something similar.

 

[Skandelon]

Studies which show the health benefits of occasional use of alcohol shouldn't surprise us as believers, after all Paul, UNDER THE INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND WITHOUT A CAVEAT, said, "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

Clearly, a "LITTLE" wine had benefits then, and it still does. Praise God for it and be cautious not to over indulge, as with food, sugar, caffeine, medications, sleep, vacations, or just about any of God's gifts and comforts of life.

 

[mont974x4]

exactly. We cannot allow ourselves to be ruled by anything or anyone other than God. That would be idolotry and it is sin. A hardline abstinence would be a misuse of Scripture and make a mockery of the cross.