Have we all become Laodicean?

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul (according to foxes there were ten Roman persecutions)
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which all of this is a mystery...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

In which we all, as part of the one whole church, are in the right hand of the Lord Jesus Christ...

These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

I wonder though, with the changes of the times and the seasons, if we have not all become Laodicean...

1. People do not care as much about church doctrine these days
2. Most successful churches are non-denomination independent Charismatic type churches
3. The denominational walls are not as high as they once were.

In my own life I enjoyed..

1. The Baptist conference - As a teenager
2. The Pentecostal revival - As a young adult

But in these days it seems that both have dissipated away in this the Laodicean church age. The very Baptist church I was brought up rebelled against the Baptist denomination she was a part of. Now with no support from the denomination such as youth camps and conferences, this church basically dissipated away.

 

[MennoSota]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul (according to foxes there were ten Roman persecutions)
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which all of this is a mystery...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

In which we all, as part of the one whole church, are in the right hand of the Lord Jesus Christ...

These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

I wonder though, with the changes of the times and the seasons, if we have not all become Laodicean...

1. People do not care as much about church doctrine these days
2. Most successful churches are non-denomination independent Charismatic type churches
3. The denominational walls are not as high as they once were.

In my own life I enjoyed..

1. The Baptist conference - As a teenager
2. The Pentecostal revival - As a young adult

But in these days it seems that both have dissipated away in this the Laodicean church age. The very Baptist church I was brought up rebelled against the Baptist denomination she was a part of. Now with no support from the denomination such as youth camps and conferences, this church basically dissipated away.

The ages theory is unsupported by scripture. Do you think the church in the middle east is luke warm? What about in China or North Korea?
The ages theory is a American-centric idea that sees the church only through American eyes. I suggest you read Robert Mounce book on Revelation. His treatment of the churches is historically accurate and sheds light on the letters Jesus gave to those specific churches.

 

[rockytopva]

The ages theory is unsupported by scripture. Do you think the church in the middle east is luke warm? What about in China or North Korea?
The ages theory is a American-centric idea that sees the church only through American eyes. I suggest you read Robert Mounce book on Revelation. His treatment of the churches is historically accurate and sheds light on the letters Jesus gave to those specific churches.

I can only present an argument...

Ephesus - Messianic church - The First Church - The Apostle Peter - The Ephesan Church started on the day of Pentecost around 33 AD. Ephesus in the Greek is of uncertain determination but may mean “discoverer,” in which this is the first church age to “discover” the meanings of Christianity. It was Peter who first received the Holy Ghost and delivered the first sermon. Thus, according to Christ Jesus, Peter became the first rock in which he would build his church (Matthew 16:18), on which the gospel then spread.

“Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my names sake hast labored, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.” –Revelations 2:1-5

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Sad thing that the first church, the Messianic church, dissipated away!

The Persecuted church - The Second Church - The Apostle Paul

Smyrna - The Smyrnaean Church age began with the Roman Emperor Nero burning down Rome and accusing the Christians of doing it. Smyrna in the Greek means “Myrrh,” in which the Smyrnaean martyrs represented the most pure form of Christianity of all the church ages. The martyred crowns were many as the Smyrnaean church age progressed.

Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…
Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD

Pergamos - The Pergamean Church Age began with Constantine’s triumph against pagan Rome at the Milvian Bridge. The liberation of Rome from the pagan powers reigned in the third church age. Because of the barbarian onslaught during this church age it was necessary for it to move into castles or towers, which is purgos in the Greek. It is recorded that half the human population would die from the barbarian onslaught, the church therefore would need to dwell in fortified structures.

It was thought that Balaam, a prophet to his people, took a bribe from Balak to curse the people of Israel. So it was with the Nicolaitanes, who taught the people that fornication was ok, cursing the lives of others. This was true in the early life of St. Augustine, who as a young man went from sexual partner to sexual partner until being converted. As St. Augustine was traveling the Roman Empire he noted in his log that “In every man lieth a serpent,” indicating that the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes spanned the entire empire before the barbarians destroyed it. This Pergamean church then withstood the onslaught of the barbarians during the time of the Goths, Huns, Vandals, on up to the time of the Vikings. This was a very barbaric age in which the church moved out of the fields and into the castles such as we had in Constantinople.

 

[rockytopva]

4. The Thyatirean Candlestick: Catholic Church Age (Charlemagne) It would be as an estimate that the Thyatirean Church age began with Charlemagne, who was a champion for the cause of Christianity. Appalled by the illiteracy of his time, Charlemagne imported scholars from Ireland, Britain, and Italy. Out of these schools were to arise the universities of Europe. In 787, Charlemagne issued to all the bishops and abbots of France a historic Capitulare de litteris colendis, or directive on the study of letters. It reproached ecclesiastics for “uncouth language” and exhorted every cathedral and monastery to establish schools where clergy and laity alike might learn to read and write. A further capitulary of 789 urged the directors of these schools to “take care to make no difference between the sons of serfs and of freemen, so that they might come and sit on the same benches to study grammar, music, and arithmetic.” Upon this foundation was the Thyatira church built. It was too bad we would not see any more Charlemagne’s during this church age.

Charlemagne gave the church so much power with the edicts of his lifetime that the church age became corrupt to the point that it was compared to the evil woman Jezebel. The church began persecutions from denying folks communion to setting up great inquisitions. “Which have not known the depths of Satan” may refer to Dante Alighieri, who terrified Europe with his writings. The church became just as ruthless as the pagans before them in the arts of death and torture. The great tribulation came about in 1347, in which the Black Death killed an estimated 25% of the European population. Thyatira means to “blow smoke” in the Greek, possibly because of the darkness the Thyatireans would bring into the lives of others.

I think that the spirit of Jezebel has long ago left the Catholic church and is now in Islam. You would not have wanted to have spoken out against the Catholic church in her time frame and geography!

5. The Sardisean Candlestick: The Reformed Church Age

The beginnings of the Sardisean Church age can be traced in 1392, when John Wycliff translated the bible into English. Because of the strong influence of the Thyatireans, Wycliff’s books were burned and his remains exhumed. Nonetheless he started a flame that would lead to the reformation of the church. It was in 1517 that Luther would nail his 95 thesis and thus begin the Sardisean Church age. The Sardisean Church age was an age most adventurous! With the discovery of the new world in 1492, the rise of the English and Spanish empires, and the German reformation, would shed in a whole new era in discovery and adventures, with a whole new era of religious thinking.


A regrettable fault in the Sardisean church age was in their ability to become just as evil as the Church they rebelled from. An example was the Anglican Church, who would persecute people for not acknowledging their book of prayer. There were also many regrettable wars in which Christians would fight against Christians, it seems that the only place Christian sects could dwell in unity was in the new world. The Lord here in scripture sought to strengthen the true light of reformation, which things were ready to die with the Sardisean Church age. The reason for this spiritual death was Europe’s unwillingness to accept a variety of faiths, to take over a faith, and to persecute those who would resist the faith. It seemed the desire of the Europeans to have a single faith within their country, and often times that faith would become just as evil as the faith they rebelled from. At the end of the Sardisean Church many of the good things died. The Sardisean Church began in adventure and ended in violence. So the need of a new church age was imminent.

6. The Philadelphian Candlestick: The Great Awakening which developed into three main methods….

1. Salvation: Evidence – The sinner’s prayer. “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9 (Easy… Right?)
2. Sanctification: Evidence – A sweet spirit. “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;” –Hebrews 10:16
3. Witness of the Spirit: Evidence - Spiritual Power. “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:4

7. The Laodicean Candlestick: The Material Church Age (DL Moody)

The Laodicean Church age was most probably born with the ease that came about after the Civil War Since DL Moody got started about this time, Moody could be considered the first messenger to this church age. DL Moody was also the first to profit off of ministry and book sales and to buy a mansion with the proceeds.

 

[rockytopva]

The ages theory is unsupported by scripture. Do you think the church in the middle east is luke warm? What about in China or North Korea?
The ages theory is a American-centric idea that sees the church only through American eyes. I suggest you read Robert Mounce book on Revelation. His treatment of the churches is historically accurate and sheds light on the letters Jesus gave to those specific churches.

There are remnants of previous church congregations. We still have a Messianic, Orthodox, and Catholic church for example.

 

[MennoSota]

There are remnants of previous church congregations. We still have a Messianic, Orthodox, and Catholic church for example.

So what. There is still no biblical evidence for the ages theory. It's culturally created by white Christians in the US in an attempt to make sense of what is happening in the world. Most of Christianity is in poverty and suffering persecution. Hardly Laodicean for our brothers and sisters around the world.

 

[MennoSota]

4. The Thyatirean Candlestick: Catholic Church Age (Charlemagne) It would be as an estimate that the Thyatirean Church age began with Charlemagne, who was a champion for the cause of Christianity. Appalled by the illiteracy of his time, Charlemagne imported scholars from Ireland, Britain, and Italy. Out of these schools were to arise the universities of Europe. In 787, Charlemagne issued to all the bishops and abbots of France a historic Capitulare de litteris colendis, or directive on the study of letters. It reproached ecclesiastics for “uncouth language” and exhorted every cathedral and monastery to establish schools where clergy and laity alike might learn to read and write. A further capitulary of 789 urged the directors of these schools to “take care to make no difference between the sons of serfs and of freemen, so that they might come and sit on the same benches to study grammar, music, and arithmetic.” Upon this foundation was the Thyatira church built. It was too bad we would not see any more Charlemagne’s during this church age.

Charlemagne gave the church so much power with the edicts of his lifetime that the church age became corrupt to the point that it was compared to the evil woman Jezebel. The church began persecutions from denying folks communion to setting up great inquisitions. “Which have not known the depths of Satan” may refer to Dante Alighieri, who terrified Europe with his writings. The church became just as ruthless as the pagans before them in the arts of death and torture. The great tribulation came about in 1347, in which the Black Death killed an estimated 25% of the European population. Thyatira means to “blow smoke” in the Greek, possibly because of the darkness the Thyatireans would bring into the lives of others.

I think that the spirit of Jezebel has long ago left the Catholic church and is now in Islam. You would not have wanted to have spoken out against the Catholic church in her time frame and geography!

5. The Sardisean Candlestick: The Reformed Church Age

The beginnings of the Sardisean Church age can be traced in 1392, when John Wycliff translated the bible into English. Because of the strong influence of the Thyatireans, Wycliff’s books were burned and his remains exhumed. Nonetheless he started a flame that would lead to the reformation of the church. It was in 1517 that Luther would nail his 95 thesis and thus begin the Sardisean Church age. The Sardisean Church age was an age most adventurous! With the discovery of the new world in 1492, the rise of the English and Spanish empires, and the German reformation, would shed in a whole new era in discovery and adventures, with a whole new era of religious thinking.


A regrettable fault in the Sardisean church age was in their ability to become just as evil as the Church they rebelled from. An example was the Anglican Church, who would persecute people for not acknowledging their book of prayer. There were also many regrettable wars in which Christians would fight against Christians, it seems that the only place Christian sects could dwell in unity was in the new world. The Lord here in scripture sought to strengthen the true light of reformation, which things were ready to die with the Sardisean Church age. The reason for this spiritual death was Europe’s unwillingness to accept a variety of faiths, to take over a faith, and to persecute those who would resist the faith. It seemed the desire of the Europeans to have a single faith within their country, and often times that faith would become just as evil as the faith they rebelled from. At the end of the Sardisean Church many of the good things died. The Sardisean Church began in adventure and ended in violence. So the need of a new church age was imminent.

6. The Philadelphian Candlestick: The Great Awakening which developed into three main methods….

1. Salvation: Evidence – The sinner’s prayer. “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9 (Easy… Right?)
2. Sanctification: Evidence – A sweet spirit. “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;” –Hebrews 10:16
3. Witness of the Spirit: Evidence - Spiritual Power. “And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:4

7. The Laodicean Candlestick: The Material Church Age (DL Moody)

The Laodicean Church age was most probably born with the ease that came about after the Civil War Since DL Moody got started about this time, Moody could be considered the first messenger to this church age. DL Moody was also the first to profit off of ministry and book sales and to buy a mansion with the proceeds.

Forcing history in only Western civilization into the Bible. It's Eurocentric make believe.

 

[rockytopva]

So what. There is still no biblical evidence for the ages theory. It's culturally created by white Christians in the US in an attempt to make sense of what is happening in the world. Most of Christianity is in poverty and suffering persecution. Hardly Laodicean for our brothers and sisters around the world.

I was brought up Baptist and then Spirit filled in Pentecostal Holiness revivals. If you travel South Western Va most of the older white looking churches are Methodist from the 1800's, and most of the more modern churches are Pentecostal Holiness. Here in the 2000's the churches are dissipating away. I find the Pentecostal Holiness church dying away as the old evangelist are either retired or no longer with us. I met a friend today who was a deacon in the PH church but now goes to the Baptist church.

 

[rockytopva]

The 1800's testimony of GC Rankin, who started out in a Sardis church, and then got it good in a Philadelphian. This is my testimony as well, only 100 years later!

Quoting the full testimony of George Clark Rankin...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

////

 

[rockytopva]

Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...

...Quote...

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

 

[rockytopva]

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.

.../Quote...

 

[MennoSota]

I was brought up Baptist and then Spirit filled in Pentecostal Holiness revivals. If you travel South Western Va most of the older white looking churches are Methodist from the 1800's, and most of the more modern churches are Pentecostal Holiness. Here in the 2000's the churches are dissipating away. I find the Pentecostal Holiness church dying away as the old evangelist are either retired or no longer with us. I met a friend today who was a deacon in the PH church but now goes to the Baptist church.

God's ordained removal. By His Sovereign decree God raises up and tears down. Our one job is to be ambassadors of reconciliation wherever God has us. Don't live in the past because the present needs for today are enough.

 

[MennoSota]

The 1800's testimony of GC Rankin, who started out in a Sardis church, and then got it good in a Philadelphian. This is my testimony as well, only 100 years later!

Quoting the full testimony of George Clark Rankin...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

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You make my point about Americentric interpretation of the Bible.

 

[rockytopva]

I must say though, that the Baptist churches can work the times and the seasons to their advantage as long as they keep Christianity sardisean, or elegant as a gem, and not get overly Laodicean on us.

 

[rockytopva]

You make my point about Americentric interpretation of the Bible.

I believe that the Laodicean church has her roots right here in America!

 

[rockytopva]

Most of the people in my Pentecostal Holiness denomination dream of going to Liberty University in Lynchburg. My pastor has a Masters degree from there. My niece got accepted there also and eagerly anticipates the experience. Hats of to Jerry Falwell! I believe that is a good work!

 

[rockytopva]

One of the most troublesome thing to me in this age is the dissipating view of the pre-trib rapture of the church. Few anticipate Christ's return these days and for the most part live for the moment.

 

[MennoSota]

I believe that the Laodicean church has her roots right here in America!

There can be any of the seven churches, in which we may see a resemblance, both good and bad. We have churches in the US that daily struggle against great odds and are faithfully serving God. It is not wise to try lump large groups into a church type shown in Revelation. Let God do His work in you and me and ask God to reveal His goodness in our lives.

 

[MennoSota]

One of the most troublesome thing to me in this age is the dissipating view of the pre-trib rapture of the church. Few anticipate Christ's return these days and for the most part live for the moment.

The view of the rapture is a new belief in the Church. Historically Christians didn't view these years as literal and they didn't see Christians being removed from suffering via antichrist.

 

[rockytopva]

There is a Baptist church that moved out of the city and into a large facility in the country. I decided to visit. What they did before service was divide the young people from the rest of the congregation. Somewhere in another building I could here the loud beat of gospel rock emanating from the walls. I did not go back to that church.

I would worry though, that if churches like that are not careful, they are unwittingly raising a new generation of Charismatics.