Have we forgot the weightier matters

[Van]

Really, sharing the gospel is the same as teaching disciples all He commanded. Reaching people for Christ is not really the same as training people to strive to be Christ-like. Evangelism is not the same as discipleship.

If we forget the weightier matters, like picking up our cross and following Him wherever He leads, soon the power of our testimony will be diminished. One group within Calvinism (perhaps hypers) pushes monergistic sanctification, where only God's actions affect our effectiveness within the family of God.

 

[Judith]

...with you! In fact, it is so simple that you must be at the very top of what it means to be holy!

Can you tell me what makes you believe that you are holy, simply because you "love Him and keep His commandments?"

I mean, what do you know about you that screams out to others, "Look at me, I am holy?"

Based on your OP and comments, I'm would be curious to know how you know that you are holy based on 2 Corinthians 13:4-6 (NLT), "For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you. Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test? But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.…" :wavey:

I realize that you despise parts of the bible, but I hold to all it says. Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. John wrote by the Spirit if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are liars. You need to take your disgust and rejection with what He said up with Him.

 

[Judith]

And what were His commandments? (Hint: Matthew 22:40)

I assume that you mean verses 37-40. If you love the Lord as stated in verse 37 you will keep everything He said. By the way Jesus gave the Ten.

 

[Van]

I think some people are talking past one another. On the one hand, we have John saying, (1 John 1:8) if we say we do not sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the Truth is not in us (we have not been born anew and sealed with the Spirit of Christ.) So we sin. But we are to strive to not sin. And on the other hand, we have John saying, (1 John 3:6) no one who abides in Him sins, no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. So if we are born anew and sealed with the Spirit of Christ we do not sin.

The answer to resolve this paradox is to accept that we have sinful thoughts and do sinful things after being born anew, but because we are spiritually in Christ, those present and future sins are continuously washed away by the blood of Christ, we are continuously justified, so it is as if we did not sin.

So from our perspective, we know what we think and do, and our indwelt Spirit convicts us of those sins, such that we recognize they are sinful, but we also know that Christ died once for all, and so if we abide in Him, our sins do not count as sins, thus no one who abides in Him sins.

 

[Judith]

I think some people are talking past one another. On the one hand, we have John saying, (1 John 1:8) if we say we do not sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the Truth is not in us (we have not been born anew and sealed with the Spirit of Christ.) So we sin. But we are to strive to not sin. And on the other hand, we have John saying, (1 John 3:6) no one who abides in Him sins, no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. So if we are born anew and sealed with the Spirit of Christ we do not sin.

The answer to resolve this paradox is to accept that we have sinful thoughts and do sinful things after being born anew, but because we are spiritually in Christ, those present and future sins are continuously washed away by the blood of Christ, we are continuously justified, so it is as if we did not sin.

So from our perspective, we know what we think and do, and our indwelt Spirit convicts us of those sins, such that we recognize they are sinful, but we also know that Christ died once for all, and so if we abide in Him, our sins do not count as sins, thus no one who abides in Him sins.

Not true. Our sins are sins and accounted as such. The difference between the saved and the lost is that the saved are not held responsible for those sins in regards to their eternal state as Christ has paid for them, but they are none the less sins.
Also the passaged you quoted about no one in Him sins is incorrect. The Greek structure is of the nature of practicing sin. No one in Him sins as a practice or way of life is what the passage is saying. We are new creatures and seeking the practice of sin is no longer our path.

 

[righteousdude2]

You are ASSUMING and AWFUL Lot....

I realize that you despise parts of the bible, but I hold to all it says. Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. John wrote by the Spirit if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are liars. You need to take your disgust and rejection with what He said up with Him.

First of all...I am sorry you didn't get to get the last word in on our discussion about the you know who and the you know what? Is that what this is about? A hidden agenda, getting back at me for that thread being shut down? Sure seems like it. But any ways, you need to get a ife and stop reading things with your selective way of thinking, because never have I ever claim that I dispised ANY part of the Bible. In fact, I hold to a Biblical World View of the Bible.So, please quit putting words in my mouth. In case you didn't know this ... This is how Gossip starts...Look we don't have to agree, but for you to insinuate that I dispise the Bible is an outright lie, and we all know who the father of lies is...PLUS, you are breaking Forum rules and policies by trying to discredit me and call into question my Christianity. :flower: Finally, I do not understand your push for the commandments, kiddo, but if that is what you believe and hold to, so be it! Far be it from me to rain on your parade! Believe and emphasize whatever you want! It is a free world and a country of free speach! But, personally speaking, Jesus broke the ten down to two, and I have never had a problem living within the laws, especially since we are in the period of Grace, and not law?

If you looked at those two laws, He told us to follow and live by, you'd see they are a mini, crash course in the TEN! I don't believe anyone on this board is arguing with you on that. It is just your continued attempt to prove yourself HOLIER then those of us you continue to talk down your spiritual nose to that is grwoing old quickly!

The kind of things you are saying are not loving in any way, and I think Jesus said we were to Love each other and love the Father, and by doing this we will be keeping the 2 commandments, which are a Readers Digest version of the big TEN. NOW, I don't question your love for Him ... but your love for those of us you are judging does not demonstrate a God like love, but rather disdain, contempt and disgust. and that is a shame. We are all such loving folks, and we want to love you back. You just make it hard to do with the wall of judgement you continue to build, higher and higher with each attempt to put us folks in our place, or rather the place you seem to think we all belong in! Wishing you happiness....Shalom!

 

[salzer mtn]

Not true. Our sins are sins and accounted as such. The difference between the saved and the lost is that the saved are not held responsible for those sins in regards to their eternal state as Christ has paid for them, but they are none the less sins.
Also the passaged you quoted about no one in Him sins is incorrect. The Greek structure is of the nature of practicing sin. No one in Him sins as a practice or way of life is what the passage is saying. We are new creatures and seeking the practice of sin is no longer our path.

Rom 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I assume that you mean verses 37-40. If you love the Lord as stated in verse 37 you will keep everything He said. By the way Jesus gave the Ten.

You can assume that if you wish, but obviously, given that I said v. 40 only, which references what He said in vv. 37-39, you would be dead wrong. Love God, love others -- on these the whole law depends. The word "depend" is the Greek kremannumi, and has a very specific meaning relative to anything so described -- particularly the Law and the Prophets -- as being summed up on those two precepts. Love, in other words, is holiness. If one acts in love, he/she acts in holiness. Simple to say, exceptionally hard to do.

 

[Van]

Not true. Our sins are sins and accounted as such. The difference between the saved and the lost is that the saved are not held responsible for those sins in regards to their eternal state as Christ has paid for them, but they are none the less sins.
Also the passages you quoted about no one in Him sins is incorrect. The Greek structure is of the nature of practicing sin. No one in Him sins as a practice or way of life is what the passage is saying. We are new creatures and seeking the practice of sin is no longer our path.

How would explain that we are holy and blameless, if our sins are counted as sins?

 

[Van]

Rom 4:6-8 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Thanks Salzer Mtn, your reference to Romans 4:8, quoting Psalms 32:2 is spot on!! Paul revisits this truth in 1 Corinthians 13:5, where love does not take into account a wrong, and 2 Corinthians 5:19 which says God does not count our trespasses against us.

Bottom line, to reconcile 1 John 1:8 and 3:6 we must see sin as not only an act (thought or deed) but an act for which God's justice demands punishment. Thus, so to speak, if God's justice is satisfied, propitiated, turned aside by the blood of Jesus, if we abide in Him we do not sin, even though the Holy Spirit convicts us and leads us not into temptation but delivers us from evil.

 

[Van]

The Greek structure is of the nature of practicing sin. No one in Him sins as a practice or way of life is what the passage is saying. We are new creatures and seeking the practice of sin is no longer our path.

It is true that some scholars attempt to reconcile the paradox using grammar, others reject the argument as an unlikely possibility. The argument runs like this. The two verbs are in different tenses, one Aorist referring to an initial act of sin, and the other verb is in the present tense, conveying the idea of habitual sin, i.e. the practice of sin.
Since another way to resolve the paradox exists, as I related above, this reliance on a message in a grammatical bottle ignores that John alternates tenses for purely stylistic reasons.

 

[Van]

Lets back up to 1 John 1:8, and little phrase, "have no sin." To say we have no sin is tantamount to saying we have no continuing need of Christ to act as our High Priest. So the phrase goes beyond saying we have no knowledge of our continuing deviations from perfection, or no guilt or personal accountability for our deviations, but makes God a liar by claiming His Holy Spirit does not convict us of sin. His Word (the Spirit of Christ) is not in those who say they have no sin.