Have we turned the sinner's prayer into a sacrament???

[lanman87]

"What must I do to be saved?" (acts 16:30)

A simple, common, straightforward question.
How would YOU answer it?

Come to a saving faith/belief in Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Come to a saving faith/belief in Christ.

With some evidence of fruit to support being saved, and not just recalling an altar call made years earlier!

 

[lanman87]

With some evidence of fruit to support being saved, and not just recalling an altar call made years earlier!

Yes, the problem with sacramentalism or ritual is that it is the doing "the thing" that saves and not our actual faith (through grace). It also makes people believe that as long as I've done "the thing" then I have eternal life, even if there has been no inward change of heart that results in a changed life.

My fear is that people who said the sinner's prayer, when they didn't truly believe, think that they are saved and are going to heaven. Maybe they simply acknowledged who Christ was and maybe even admitted their need of Christ, but for whatever reason, they weren't made "New Creations". There was no inner change from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. They went through the trappings of new birth but didn't really have a new birth.

Now let me qualify that I do know many people who responded to an alter call, said the sinners prayer, and the fruit and evidence of their life is that they are faithful followers of Christ.

I also know people who never responded to an alter call, never said the sinner's prayer and yet openly profess faith in Christ, live a life of repentance, and the fruit and evidence of their life is that they are faithful followers of Christ.

I also know people who responded to an alter call, said the sinner's prayer, and then went on with their life like nothing happened.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, the problem with sacramentalism or ritual is that it is the doing "the thing" that saves and not our actual faith (through grace). It also makes people believe that as long as I've done "the thing" then I have eternal life, even if there has been no inward change of heart that results in a changed life.

My fear is that people who said the sinner's prayer, when they didn't truly believe, think that they are saved and are going to heaven. Maybe they simply acknowledged who Christ was and maybe even admitted their need of Christ, but for whatever reason, they weren't made "New Creations". There was no inner change from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. They went through the trappings of new birth but didn't really have a new birth.

Now let me qualify that I do know many people who responded to an alter call, said the sinners prayer, and the fruit and evidence of their life is that they are faithful followers of Christ.

I also know people who never responded to an alter call, never said the sinner's prayer and yet openly profess faith in Christ, live a life of repentance, and the fruit and evidence of their life is that they are faithful followers of Christ.

I also know people who responded to an alter call, said the sinner's prayer, and then went on with their life like nothing happened.

The key would be was their a changed mind and heart, resulting in a changed life? just anything that would show now saved in Jesus?

 

[MB]

I never said anything about hating the sinners prayer. Saying a prayer of belief, thanksgiving, confession, repentance and asking for help in living out the new belief is the natural first act of someone who comes to faith.

My questions is more about the fact that it seems we have almost turned the "sinner's prayer" into a sacrament or ritual by which we are saved instead of an expression of belief/faith as worded by a new believer
.

Sorry for the bad comment.
Most not all have no idea of how to pray and ask. This I think is why alter calls are done.
I believe and believing is how we are saved. Not that we save our selves but we ask the Lord to save us. We express our faith and we repent of our sins. We must ask.
.
Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
Luk 11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luk 11:11 And of which of you that is a father shall his son ask a loaf, and he give him a stone? or a fish, and he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he give him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
MB

 

[MB]

Yes, the problem with sacramentalism or ritual is that it is the doing "the thing" that saves and not our actual faith (through grace). It also makes people believe that as long as I've done "the thing" then I have eternal life, even if there has been no inward change of heart that results in a changed life.

My fear is that people who said the sinner's prayer, when they didn't truly believe, think that they are saved and are going to heaven. Maybe they simply acknowledged who Christ was and maybe even admitted their need of Christ, but for whatever reason, they weren't made "New Creations". There was no inner change from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. They went through the trappings of new birth but didn't really have a new birth.

Now let me qualify that I do know many people who responded to an alter call, said the sinners prayer, and the fruit and evidence of their life is that they are faithful followers of Christ.

I also know people who never responded to an alter call, never said the sinner's prayer and yet openly profess faith in Christ, live a life of repentance, and the fruit and evidence of their life is that they are faithful followers of Christ.

I also know people who responded to an alter call, said the sinner's prayer, and then went on with their life like nothing happened.

So are you wondering that it could all be an act?. Who are we to judge the Salvation of another?. We can't see there hearts. We can't possibly know everything about a person as to whether there is any change..I know there are certain individuals who judge everyone else as to whether or not they are truly saved. Do you judge them by there good works? Are you aware that the lost also do good works? Would you say a person that does good works is saved? The Pharisee's Judged Christ because He did good works on the Sabbath.
Is keeping the law good works?.
We are not saved by works nor are they ever required for Salvation What we see of a man is not His spiritual self but His physical self, Two different personalities
MB

 

[Van]

"What must I do to be saved?" (acts 16:30)
A simple, common, straightforward question.
How would YOU answer it?

The next verse say believe upon the the Lord Jesus. The content of their faith is not disclosed. A similar verse (John 6:29) indicates a person must believe into (eis) Him. Thus the result on a person's faith upon or toward Christ is salvation if God places the person into Christ by reason of crediting that faith as righteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

The next verse say believe upon the the Lord Jesus. The content of their faith is not disclosed. A similar verse (John 6:29) indicates a person must believe into (eis) Him. Thus the result on a person's faith upon or toward Christ is salvation if God places the person into Christ by reason of crediting that faith as righteousness.

Not the faith, the One in whom the faith is placed!

 

[lanman87]

So are you wondering that it could all be an act?. Who are we to judge the Salvation of another?. We can't see there hearts.

Agreed, that is why we shouldn't be so quick to tell someone they are "saved" when they say the sinners prayer. (Like I've seen happen dozens of times). They may be or they may not be. We aren't the ones to judge.

 

[lanman87]

know there are certain individuals who judge everyone else as to whether or not they are truly saved.

I'm not judging anyone. I'm having conversation about the "sinner's prayer" and if we (Baptist/Evangelicals) are treating it as if the prayer itself is the means of salvation or if we are treating it as evidence of someone coming to faith.

 

[atpollard]

Same way Paul answered the jailer!

[Act 16:31 NASB] 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

... so your complaint is that the Sinner’s Prayer is too long?

 

[Van]

Not the faith, the One in whom the faith is placed!

Non-responsive smokescreed

 

[AustinC]

I'm not judging anyone. I'm having conversation about the "sinner's prayer" and if we (Baptist/Evangelicals) are treating it as if the prayer itself is the means of salvation or if we are treating it as evidence of someone coming to faith.

I had a Baptist pastor tell me that the prayer saves a person and even if the person doesn't have a change in behavior, that prayer ensures the person's salvation.

Does that answer your question. Interestingly he is an SBC pastor.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I'm not judging anyone. I'm having conversation about the "sinner's prayer" and if we (Baptist/Evangelicals) are treating it as if the prayer itself is the means of salvation or if we are treating it as evidence of someone coming to faith.

When God makes something a requirement, humans have to obey what God says.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice that 10:10 does not say that those who have already been saved will confess with their mouth. God says that confession with the mouth is made unto salvation.

To be saved, humans must confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord.

Consider that Jesus taught that the one who cried out to God (which means that he prayed to God) for mercy is the one who went home justified:

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Acknowledging one's sinfulness to God and crying out to Him for mercy is necessary for salvation.

 

[MB]

Agreed, that is why we shouldn't be so quick to tell someone they are "saved" when they say the sinners prayer. (Like I've seen happen dozens of times). They may be or they may not be. We aren't the ones to judge.

I would rather they tell me that they are saved. No one had to tell me I was saved because afterwards every thing was different. My attitude, and how the world seemed to be. I was at last at peace with my self and others. I was at peace with God.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

[Act 16:31 NASB] 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

... so your complaint is that the Sinner’s Prayer is too long?

No, rather that many would have prayed it, and yet not really have been saved! Trusting in that one time done years ago....

 

[lanman87]

When God makes something a requirement, humans have to obey what God says.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Notice that 10:10 does not say that those who have already been saved will confess with their mouth. God says that confession with the mouth is made unto salvation.

To be saved, humans must confess with their mouths that Jesus is Lord.

Consider that Jesus taught that the one who cried out to God (which means that he prayed to God) for mercy is the one who went home justified:

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Acknowledging one's sinfulness to God and crying out to Him for mercy is necessary for salvation.

Is saying the sinner's prayer and confessing with ones mouth the same thing? If I ask someone, "Do you believe in Jesus" and they say "Yes". Isn't that confessing that Jesus is Lord?

 

[lanman87]

I had a Baptist pastor tell me that the prayer saves a person and even if the person doesn't have a change in behavior, that prayer ensures the person's salvation.

Does that answer your question. Interestingly he is an SBC pastor.

Sadly, that confirms my initial premise in this thread.

 

[Yeshua1]

I had a Baptist pastor tell me that the prayer saves a person and even if the person doesn't have a change in behavior, that prayer ensures the person's salvation.

Does that answer your question. Interestingly he is an SBC pastor.

Not very biblical answer from him!

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Is saying the sinner's prayer and confessing with ones mouth the same thing? If I ask someone, "Do you believe in Jesus" and they say "Yes". Isn't that confessing that Jesus is Lord?

Saying the "sinner's prayer" and confessing with one's mouth may be the same thing if the "sinner's prayer" has a direct acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord in it.

No, asking someone if they believe in Jesus and their replying affirmatively is not necessarily their confessing that Jesus is Lord. You would have to know what "believe in Jesus" means to that person to determine what they are communicating by saying that they believe in Him.

More importantly, I think that it would be more helpful for you to do some serious examination of the passages in Scripture where God says that He requires people to pray to Him in order to have their sins forgiven. When you look at those passages, it is unquestionable that a person must ask God for forgiveness in order to receive it from Him.