Have you actually tried using The Way of the Master?

[Don]

Not sure what I am missing. The two seem to contradict.

The second comment was in regard to his almost-preaching easy believism.

His open air preaching, he can't confirm if anyone really got saved; but he knows for sure that the 10 converts from the easy-believism preaching weren't really saved.

 

[evangelist6589]

You just said that you got saved that way -- but that you also believe it results in false converts. But you're not a false convert?

So do those methods see souls saved or not? If they do, then HOW can you condemn *anything* God uses to bring His elect to Him?

And thus, you may not like it; but if only one soul is saved, then it works.

What I'm trying to point out is that you're violating Romans 14.

Well some "christians" perform Death Metal and some churches have that style of noise in their services. It draws some crowds. Why can't all churches have death metal worship music since it does attract some people?

 

[Don]

Well some "christians" perform Death Metal and some churches have that style of noise in their services. It draws some crowds. Why can't all churches have death metal worship music since it does attract some people?

How does that even apply? Are you saying that someone who's professed Christ wouldn't have anything to do with "death metal"? What's sinful about "death metal"?

Have you actually looked at Romans 14? Much less read it?

 

[JamesL]

I was gonna come back and boast of all the decisions for Christ that I got that day and say I led like 10 souls to the Lord. However most if not all of them would be false converts since they only repeated a prayer, but since I did not get much into sin, they walked away still the same proud unbeliever. Yes I am sure even the Pantheist could repeat the prayer, and walk away believing in multiple gods.

I had a Facebook friend whose page I was checking out, and saw one of her friends had posted that he had led about 80 people to "pray the prayer" that day. It intrigued me, so I checked out his page. Every day was this outrageous number of people

"prayed the prayer with 137 people today"
"had 154 today"
"led 122 people to pray the sinner's prayer today"
"bad day, only led 56 people to pray the prayer today"

Being a numbers guy, I started some quick figurin'

Ok, suppose he goes out at 10am and stays out til 8pm. That's 10 hours. Divide that into 137, and you have 13.7 per hour. Or even suppose some are two at a time, make it 10 every hour. One every 6 minutes. All day long. Now suppose he spends a whole minute flagging down the next guy, he's got 5 minutes. But suppose he flags down 3 people before he gets one to let him have his say, he's got 3 minutes. Wow

Can we make a "pitch" in 3 minutes? Sure. But all day, every day? Hmmm

I think I'm generous with the percentages, too.

I thought "sure, ok. You conned 137 people into repeating a prayer, but how many of them believed upon Christ?"

 

[InTheLight]

The second comment was in regard to his almost-preaching easy believism.

His open air preaching, he can't confirm if anyone really got saved; but he knows for sure that the 10 converts from the easy-believism preaching weren't really saved.

You know once the devil tempted me to head to DT Denver and this time preach a easy-believism message, only talk about God's love, ask people if they wanted to get saved, and then lead many in a prayer. I am sure I could double my efforts and get lots of decisions that way. However the Holy Spirit told me I would be in sin for doing such a thing!

I wonder what the apostle Paul says about the attitude and motives of the preacher...

Phillipians 1:15-18
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

 

[Don]

I had a Facebook friend whose page I was checking out, and saw one of her friends had posted that he had led about 80 people to "pray the prayer" that day. It intrigued me, so I checked out his page. Every day was this outrageous number of people

"prayed the prayer with 137 people today"
"had 154 today"
"led 122 people to pray the sinner's prayer today"
"bad day, only led 56 people to pray the prayer today"

Being a numbers guy, I started some quick figurin'

Ok, suppose he goes out at 10am and stays out til 8pm. That's 10 hours. Divide that into 137, and you have 13.7 per hour. Or even suppose some are two at a time, make it 10 every hour. One every 6 minutes. All day long. Now suppose he spends a whole minute flagging down the next guy, he's got 5 minutes. But suppose he flags down 3 people before he gets one to let him have his say, he's got 3 minutes. Wow

Can we make a "pitch" in 3 minutes? Sure. But all day, every day? Hmmm

I think I'm generous with the percentages, too.

I thought "sure, ok. You conned 137 people into repeating a prayer, but how many of them believed upon Christ?"

More than likely, he led "group prayers", and possibly even prayed for the whole group. Tragic.

This is why we say that street evangelism is important; but follow-up discipleship is just as, if not more, important.

 

[RLBosley]

I had a Facebook friend whose page I was checking out, and saw one of her friends had posted that he had led about 80 people to "pray the prayer" that day. It intrigued me, so I checked out his page. Every day was this outrageous number of people

"prayed the prayer with 137 people today"
"had 154 today"
"led 122 people to pray the sinner's prayer today"
"bad day, only led 56 people to pray the prayer today"

Being a numbers guy, I started some quick figurin'

Ok, suppose he goes out at 10am and stays out til 8pm. That's 10 hours. Divide that into 137, and you have 13.7 per hour. Or even suppose some are two at a time, make it 10 every hour. One every 6 minutes. All day long. Now suppose he spends a whole minute flagging down the next guy, he's got 5 minutes. But suppose he flags down 3 people before he gets one to let him have his say, he's got 3 minutes. Wow

Can we make a "pitch" in 3 minutes? Sure. But all day, every day? Hmmm

I think I'm generous with the percentages, too.

I thought "sure, ok. You conned 137 people into repeating a prayer, but how many of them believed upon Christ?"

That's disgusting. I don't understand how people can rationalize that such nonsense is biblical evangelism.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Have you been to the streets or actually tried using the Law on people?

Yes. Long before Kirk Cameron became a Christian and "The Way of the Master" (sic) was founded.

My issue with "The Way of the Master" is that Jesus used MANY ways to speak to people. "The Way of the Master" seems to focus on the way Jesus spoke to the rich young ruler, although the interpretation of the exchange assumes that the rich young ruler was asking how to get have "eternal life" in the same way that contemporary North American culture understands it (going to heaven).

I have not brought anyone to Christ in all my years, but maybe God has brought thousands via my efforts.

I have been fortunate to participate in the process by which people come to faith in Jesus, including more than 50 incidents where I was working with someone one-on-one at the time of their decision point. For those with whom I have been able to remain in touch, all of them seem to be active believers including ministers, missionaries, or engaged church people. That doesn't mean my views or methods are correct, but my way of doing evangelism seems to be working, and I don't have a set method or a one-size-fits-all process that claims to be "The Way" of Jesus.

 

[Don]

I wonder what the apostle Paul says about the attitude and motives of the preacher...

Phillipians 1:15-18
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

THAT'S the verse I've been trying to think of. Thanks!

I have been fortunate to participate in the process by which people come to faith in Jesus, including more than 50 incidents where I was working with someone one-on-one at the time of their decision point. For those with whom I have been able to remain in touch, all of them seem to be active believers including ministers, missionaries, or engaged church people. That doesn't mean my views or methods are correct, but my way of doing evangelism seems to be working, and I don't have a set method or a one-size-fits-all process that claims to be "The Way" of Jesus.

I've found that identifying one particular method over others is similar to the problem with Rick Warren's "Purpose-driven" series: They ignore what you've said here, that each of us have particular gifts, and each recipient needs an individual approach.

 

[evangelist6589]

THAT'S the verse I've been trying to think of. Thanks!





I've found that identifying one particular method over others is similar to the problem with Rick Warren's "Purpose-driven" series: They ignore what you've said here, that each of us have particular gifts, and each recipient needs an individual approach.

Not true. WOTM is the best way to evangelize but not the only way,

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Not true. WOTM is the best way to evangelize but not the only way,

It appears to be the best way for YOU to evangelise, and I praise the Lord for your dedication in using it. However, it seems more than a bit presumptuous to claim it's THE BEST way.

 

[Don]

Not true. WOTM is the best way to evangelize but not the only way,

I disagree. Are you baptizing, as per Matthew 28? If not, then are you truly fulfilling His commandment to teach all nations?

 

[Yeshua1]

Most here reject WOTM but probably in ignorance and stubbornness. I was reading a story of a Christian whom sent a letter to Ray and just slammed him and made some of the arguments that people on this board make. But a few months later he write back and said that since he actually tried using it he started to love it! So my question for you is. Have you been to the streets or actually tried using the Law on people? If you are looking for results do not use WOTM, for Jesus said to Peter that flesh and blood did not reveal things to him so be aware that only God can grant faith and repentance on his elect and Ray made clear of this View in this book.

I have not brought anyone to Christ in all my years, but maybe God has brought thousands via my efforts.

Would say that the main issue have with that is that it seems to try to have people 'reasoned' into the Kingdom, and that it seems to imply a full surrender to jesus needs to be done while yet sinners in order to have a real salvation happen!

 

[evangelist6589]

[ QUOTE=Don;2131081]I disagree. Are you baptizing, as per Matthew 28? If not, then are you truly fulfilling His commandment to teach all nations?[/QUOTE]


Unless you have read the Way of the Master book or Hells Best kept secret book you don't know what you are saying.

 

[Don]

I disagree. Are you baptizing, as per Matthew 28? If not, then are you truly fulfilling His commandment to teach all nations?

Unless you have read the Way of the Master book or Hells Best kept secret book you don't know what you are saying.

Don't assume that I haven't -- but I won't tell you whether I have or haven't until you answer the question.

 

[JonC]

Most here reject WOTM but probably in ignorance and stubbornness. I was reading a story of a Christian whom sent a letter to Ray and just slammed him and made some of the arguments that people on this board make. But a few months later he write back and said that since he actually tried using it he started to love it! So my question for you is. Have you been to the streets or actually tried using the Law on people? If you are looking for results do not use WOTM, for Jesus said to Peter that flesh and blood did not reveal things to him so be aware that only God can grant faith and repentance on his elect and Ray made clear of this View in this book.

I have not brought anyone to Christ in all my years, but maybe God has brought thousands via my efforts.

Although I am not opposed to the method, and have used it in the past, it is not my favorite by far. Communicating with people, communicating the gospel, and trying to work through questions and concerns is probably the best "method" for me (although I suppose it is not a "method" at all). I can learn and deal with Scripture, but when it comes to practicing methods I tend to get caught up on the process and fail in the communication.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Not true. WOTM is the best way to evangelize but not the only way,

What is the basis of this assertion?

For the sake of argument, let's assume your unsubstanitated assertion is true. Why didn't Jesus use the so-called "Way of the Master" every time? Don't you think he would want to use the "best" way every time?

 

[Revmitchell]

What is the basis of this assertion?

For the sake of argument, let's assume you unsubstanitated assertion is true. Why didn't Jesus use the so-called "Way of the Master" every time? Don't you think he would want to use the "best" way every time?

Oh I get it, you actually believe you will get a reasoned response. Now I see. :laugh:

 

[evangelist6589]

Don't assume that I haven't -- but I won't tell you whether I have or haven't until you answer the question.

There is more than one way to fulfill the commission and the other way is Mark 16:15 and to preach to every creature as in all humans.

 

[evangelist6589]

What is the basis of this assertion?

For the sake of argument, let's assume your unsubstanitated assertion is true. Why didn't Jesus use the so-called "Way of the Master" every time? Don't you think he would want to use the "best" way every time?

He did use it all the time!

Zachias the tax collector he gave grace because he had a repentant heart. Nicodemus the same as well. But to the proud he opposed such as the teachers of the law.