Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
Find the verses that say we have free will unto salvation and this will be over in a flash.
You don't have to apologize for what is true. Salvation is of God, from start to finish.
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Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?
- Thread starter Samuels
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Find the verses that say we have free will unto salvation and this will be over in a flash.
You don't have to apologize for what is true. Salvation is of God, from start to finish.
Just to be quite clear: there is a variety of Greek words that are translated 'obey' in the NT.
There is peitho (Romans 2:8 KJV; Hebrews 13:17 etc.).
There is hupakouo (Matthew 8:27; Romans 6:12; Hebrews 11:8 etc.).
There is peitharcheo (Acts 5:29, 32; Titus 3:1).
There is ginomai (Acts 7:39).
There is nowhere (in the KJV, at least) that I can find where pisteuo is translated 'obey.'
Having said that, if one believes something, it must inevitably show up in one's behaviour. 'Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness.' But his faith led him to do something. 'By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.' But it was not the going that saved him, it was his trust in God; he set out as a saved man, saved by grace for the good deeds that God had prepared in advance for him to do, and when he sinned (eg. Genesis 12:10ff), he was forgiven.
So, you are saying then that ...
the multitudes in American churches who are deeply involved in habitual sinning
do not believe in Jesus!
The purpose of the new birth is to make it possible for man to satisfy God.
He is given a new nature, which no longer has to sin.
He is given the precious Holy Spirit, who will teach him "all things" (spiritual).
Thus, man now has the choice of whether or not to continue sinning.
When he does slip up, all he needs to do is repent of the sin,
and Jesus will cleanse him with His precious blood.
Everywhere I go, believers throw up their hands and moan,
"But I can't stop sinning, and neither can you!" ...
with NO realization that their problem can be taken care of via repentance!
Since you asked for a repeat, in a round about way, here it is ...
RECONCILING the so-called NT OSAS verses with the anti-OSAS NT verses ...
saving belief = belief, faith, trust, obedience
(with 15 NT verses teaching that one must remain in the faith until the end of his/her life).
Jesus repeated several time that if Katarina loves Him, she will obey His commandments!
I wonder if she loves Him.
I don't wonder that if she refuses to obey His commandments, she won't be invited into heaven.
the bible states to us even if we are unfaithful to Him, he is still faithful to us, and also that as the High priest, he will lose none saved, and Jude also agreed!
You have seen several obvious NT verses which warn us that eternal life CAN be lost.
(This obvously must apply to those who have eternal life at some point in time.)
So, the answer to this dilemma is that salvation is a process!
And we're back to the 15 NT verses, which warn the believer that he/she
must stay in the faith until the very end of his/her life to gain eternal life.
These verses you have seen also.
Jesus stated that he will raise up ALL the father has given him to get saved, that NONE will be lost, do you believe Jesus or not?
This is silly, all these 'solas'. So which is it? God's grace alone, or, our faith alone? It can't be both together, 'alone'. (and I can go with grace alone, totally; but not faith alone, it's anti-biblical)
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
You simply refuse to reconcile the verses. That way you don't have to do any real exegesis.
When you cannot do, what you say you can do, you obfuscate, run, dodge, duck, avoid and run for the high weeds.
Why should any of us believe you when you cannot reconcile the Bible for yourself.
All you have are fifteen verses you have refused to correctly exegete.
Its saved by the Grace of God, received thru the gift of faith given to us by God
[Samuels
Eternal life...by definition.....is Eternal
Then it could never had been said to be eternal life...could it?
Eternal life...by definition.....is Eternal
We are NOT ignoring the NT verses, but we ARE saying that you really misunderstand what they mean!
You can't lose what you don't have. My salvation is in Christ. Hidden with Christ in God. And sealed with the Holy Spirit. As I no longer have it, I can not lose it. Those who claim they can lose it seem to me to be saying their salvation is not in Christ, but sill in themselves.
You mean Calvinistic!
Katarina Von Bora
Active Member
If you could support your beliefs, you would make an attempt to do so. You won't and we all know it.
Scripture says it is God who justified and that He will never stop loving me and you.
Romans 8:33-39
It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Here you go SAMUEL,
This bible chapter, I don't even have to comment, it does all the work: I'm so confident with it I will accept all LINE FOR LINE exegesis anyone is willing to offer.
Philippians 3
1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,4although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.
17Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. 20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
This bible chapter, I don't even have to comment, it does all the work: I'm so confident with it I will accept all LINE FOR LINE exegesis anyone is willing to offer.
Philippians 3
1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,4although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.
7But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.
17Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. 20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
More than that....but I see you have studied Luther.
Well look at scripture,
Rom 3:24 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:”
Rom 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
Rom 5:1 “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:”
James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”
Patricia robinson
New Member
Well..I think we should remember that satan acts massively in churches. The truth is that church is people and not buildings. The new Testament church met in homes with like minded folks and it was more difficult for standard to work there because it was easier to have unity. Psalm 133 system we need unity to be blessed. Home church is best to stay away from satan. Jesus enemies were in the religious institutions and they hated him, the church has many false christinns who are used easily by sat an to hurt the real followers. The Bible is full of verses telling us to stay away from divisive folks, angry folks and much more. Unity is key to blessing even if it's just a few.
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