Have you changed your view...

[Adonia]

I do no such thing, Adonia. I listen and consider every word stated, but I test all things by the judge of words. Therefore, let us continue elsewhere.

Let us continue in the thread "Private Interpretation" which I just created.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Let us continue in the thread "Private Interpretation" which I just created.

Sounds good. I have to go for now, and I will be back a little later. I am going to go for my weekly bible study with trouble youth at the school. Could be a few hours depending. I will then come back, should there be enough time between then and prayer meeting tonight to spend some time with you today in the thread you created.

 

[1689Dave]

on a doctrine or ethical issue? I have done so with one in particular, just in the last year or so. But I don't think I can talk about it here. I really studied and researched it, and what I was once so certain about, now I am not. I was just wondering if anyone else had gone through this.

"I was a teenage Arminian Dispensationalist". Think "I was a teenage Werewolf", the 50's horror flick but worse. And then add Pentecostalism to this.

Today after 40+ years of study I'm the complete opposite. But I still have the same presence of Christ in my heart. Instead of Dispensationalism, I'm Amillennial. Instead of Arminian, I'm Calvinistic holding to the first three of the five points. Instead of Pentecostal I'm a cessationist.

 

[rlvaughn]

Have you changed your view...on a doctrine or ethical issue?

Yes. I think that is the natural course of biblical study, although I don't attribute everyone's changes to accurate biblical study.

I don't think any of mine have been major, at least from the way I see it, but sometimes such changes can nevertheless put you out in a lonesome part of the field.

This topic brought to my mind another question. Rather than distract here, I have started a new thread for it -- Would you like to change your view? "Do you have a belief or practice you might like to change, but the Bible won't let you?"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"I was a teenage Arminian Dispensationalist". Think "I was a teenage Werewolf", the 50's horror flick but worse. And then add Pentecostalism to this.

Today after 40+ years of study I'm the complete opposite. But I still have the same presence of Christ in my heart. Instead of Dispensationalism, I'm Amillennial. Instead of Arminian, I'm Calvinistic holding to the first three of the five points. Instead of Pentecostal I'm a cessationist.

And I was a Catholic for 34 years with roots going back to Constantine (in fact my Grandfathers name was Constantine) LoL! That is how deep the connection was.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I personally find that OLD SCHOOL Primitive Baptists fits my specifications for a religious society. But I did have my reservations at first. They are a religious society that measures everything via scripture. Like why do I need musical instruments when the human voice is enough. Why do I need overeducated seminary students to lead me when regenerated men who study the Bible are often very well educated and willing to offer guidance (in fact nobody ever denied me guidance). They view me as a brethren. My only complaint is there are no PB churches in New Jersey. So what to do?

 

[1689Dave]

I personally find that OLD SCHOOL Primitive Baptists fits my specifications for a religious society. But I did have my reservations at first. They are a religious society that measures everything via scripture. Like why do I need musical instruments when the human voice is enough. Why do I need overeducated seminary students to lead me when regenerated men who study the Bible are often very well educated and willing to offer guidance (in fact nobody ever denied me guidance). They view me as a brethren. My only complaint is there are no PB churches in New Jersey. So what to do?

I believe pretty much the same as PBs. But view their small numbers as signs of the times. Jesus asked if he would find the faith on earth when he returned.

 

[Walter]

And, I was a Baptist for many years who finally studied the early church and Catholic apologetics. I have grown much closer to Christ since my conversion to Catholicism. My wife and I spend time traveling to different historical sites of the Christian faith, so you can call us roamin' catholics!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I believe pretty much the same as PBs. But view their small numbers as signs of the times. Jesus asked if he would find the faith on earth when he returned.

They are not small in Texas and Florida. For example:
www. wintergardenpbc

 

[tyndale1946]

I personally find that OLD SCHOOL Primitive Baptists fits my specifications for a religious society. But I did have my reservations at first. They are a religious society that measures everything via scripture. Like why do I need musical instruments when the human voice is enough. Why do I need overeducated seminary students to lead me when regenerated men who study the Bible are often very well educated and willing to offer guidance (in fact nobody ever denied me guidance). They view me as a brethren. My only complaint is there are no PB churches in New Jersey. So what to do?

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing... Brother Glen

 

[37818]

This should probably be in the book review forum but here goes. [Opening myself up to criticism]

I’ve been reading and listening to an Kindle/Audible recording of Peter Enns book How the Bible Actually Works (2019) for the past month or more (narrated by the author himself).
It is written in an informal manner, jokes, puns and humorous asides are thrown into the mix of serious theological questioning.
I listened to it a few times: the book is both intriguing and troublesome.

He describes our Scriptures as a very human book, a book of human wisdom but don’t get me wrong, he doesn’t deny that the words are inspired.
In a previous book, he related that we can describe Scripture in a way similar to how we describe Christ, being both 100% fully God, and 100% fully man, a view he calls the “incarnational analogy: Christ’s incarnation is analogous to Scripture’s “incarnation." [Peter Enns, Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament, second edition. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2015), 6.]

Enns repeatedly uses the word, “re-imagined” as he marches us through the Scriptures, I initially presumed he meant something along the lines of "progressive revelation" but the more I listened the more I realized it was not a fit.

Why does the book bother me? He confronts various biblical problem passages directly, accepting them at face value and doesn't attempt to explain them away, rather he understands that the people (biblical authors) of the time were working out God’s ways in their own time, in their own way. They were “re-imagining” God.

I eventually had to research exactly what Peter Enns felt about inerrancy, This was the doctrine that was being attacked.

Peter Enns participated in writing yet another book, Five Views on Biblical Inerrancy.
His chapter was titled, Biblical Inerrancy: Peter Enns – An Argument Against Inerrancy

The Bible is a book that tells one grand narrative, but by means of divergent viewpoints and different theologies. It tells of God’s acts but also reports some events that either may not have happened or have been significantly reshaped and transformed by centuries of tradition. It presents us with portraits of God and of his people that at times comfort and confirm our faith while at other times challenge and stretch our faith to its breaking point. This is the Bible we have, the Bible God gave us. Redefining or nuancing inerrancy to account for these properties can be of some value, and some are no doubt content to do so. The core issue, however, is how inerrancy functions in contemporary evangelical theological discourse. This too varies, but when all is said and done, I do not think inerrancy can capture the Bible’s varied character and complex dynamics. Though intended to protect the Bible, inerrancy actually sells it short by placing on it expectations it is not designed to bear—as evidenced by the need for generations of continued publications and debates to defend it. On a deeper and ultimately more important level, inerrancy sells God short. Inerrancy is routinely propounded as the logical entailment of God’s truthfulness, which for many inerrantists leads to the necessary expectation of the Bible’s historical accuracy. The premise that such an inerrant Bible is the only kind of book God would be able to produce, or the only effective means of divine communication, strikes me as assuming that God shares our modern interest in accuracy and scientific precision, rather than allowing the phenomena of Scripture to shape our theological expectations. Zondervan. Five Views on Biblical Inerrancy (Counterpoints: Bible and Theology) Zondervan. Kindle Edition.​

I've been studying biblical inerrancy for decades and have a whole shelf on the topic. For some reason Enns has made inroads into my thoughts and understandings.

It's a work-in-progress.

Rob

Rob, if you would, give one example, case in poiint that Enn's uses to demonsstrate what he argues to make his case. Start with one first.

Thanks.

 

[37818]

I was born a Baptist, attended a Baptist college, was convinced the Catholic Church taught a false gospel and tried to 'reach Catholics for Jesus'. I ultimately studied Catholic apologetics and became convinced that the Catholic faith was the faith of the Apostles and the Early Church. Now Im a Catholic Christian.

Can you give one primary teaching that persuaded you? Thanks.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing... Brother Glen

Glen, every moment of every day is a prayer. Thanks

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Can you give one primary teaching that persuaded you? Thanks.

I’m curious about that myself

 

[Walter]

Can you give one primary teaching that persuaded you? Thanks.

There are many reasons why I and other former evangelicals convert to Catholicism. One reason is: Certainty
To have certainty and knowledge of truth leads many evangelicals to look elsewhere beyond all the doctrinal differences and “choose-your-own-church syndrome” within evangelical churches. I had the desire for certain knowledge, this is something I could not find within evangelical churches. If I were to ask ten evangelicals what their churches teach about marriage and divorce, how many different answers might I get?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are many reasons why I and other former evangelicals convert to Catholicism. One reason is: Certainty
To have certainty and knowledge of truth leads many evangelicals to look elsewhere beyond all the doctrinal differences and “choose-your-own-church syndrome” within evangelical churches. I had the desire for certain knowledge, this is something I could not find within evangelical churches. If I were to ask ten evangelicals what their churches teach about marriage and divorce, how many different answers might I get?

So nine times outa ten when you meet a Catholic priest and explain to him you are having marital problems you get “OK we can explore getting a(1) divorce (2) annulment (3) a package deal on a 3 day/2 night Disney vacation.

 

[Walter]

So nine times outa ten when you meet a Catholic priest and explain to him you are having marital problems you get “OK we can explore getting a(1) divorce (2) annulment (3) a package deal on a 3 day/2 night Disney vacation.

Catholics have clear teaching on marriage and divorce in the CCC which is based on Christ's teachings:
Catechism of the Catholic Church 1614–1615). Other churches have modified their teachings to accommodate the pro-divorce ethos that dominates modern culture, but the Catholic Church teaches what Jesus taught.

 

[tyndale1946]

So nine times outa ten when you meet a Catholic priest and explain to him you are having marital problems you get “OK we can explore getting a(1) divorce (2) annulment (3) a package deal on a 3 day/2 night Disney vacation.

Well I can only relate what I heard the wife of very famous Christian Evangelical Rev. Billy Graham say... Ruth Graham... She was being interviewed one time and the question was asked her, Sister Graham in your years married to Rev Graham did divorce ever cross your mind?... Without batting an eyes, she said... Murder yes!!!... Divorce NEVER!!!... Brother Glen

 

[37818]

There are many reasons why I and other former evangelicals convert to Catholicism. One reason is: Certainty
To have certainty and knowledge of truth leads many evangelicals to look elsewhere beyond all the doctrinal differences and “choose-your-own-church syndrome” within evangelical churches. I had the desire for certain knowledge, this is something I could not find within evangelical churches. If I were to ask ten evangelicals what their churches teach about marriage and divorce, how many different answers might I get?

Thanks. I guess I need to ask a more specific question. When you were of the Baptist persuasion, what would you have explained to someone who asked, how to know for sure of Heaven and eternal life when one dies?

 

[37818]

I’m curious about that myself

Biblical errancy is for me an on going interest, being persuaded of Biblical inerrancy. There are three reasons for Biblical errancy, the reader, issue of translation or a known manuscript variant.