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Have you EVER switched views?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whetstone, May 16, 2005.

?

On Total Inability...

  1. I have always accepted Total Inability

    17 vote(s)
    41.5%

  2. I have always rejected Total Inability

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%

  3. I used to accept it but now reject it

    14 vote(s)
    34.1%

  4. I used to reject it but now accept it

    4 vote(s)
    9.8%

  5. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    Always got a dictionary handy don't u? :D well okay i'll not make a deal out of it or anything. lol.
     
    #21 whetstone, May 16, 2005
  2. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    NOT unexpected! </font>[/QUOTE]to be honest, I'm not surprised either. It's very interesting how many Calvinsts were actually former Arminians and how few (like 3 votes so far) USED to hold a Calvinistic view and went back to Arminianism. Either a) Calvinists are just SOOO stubborn in their falsehood to change or b) Calvinists are so convinced of the truth from scripture that once they find it they cannot bring themselves to deny it.
     
    #22 whetstone, May 16, 2005
  3. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    There is another option. The indoctrination that Calvinism fosters is strong. And like many cults, its adherents fear departing from something that sounds so good; yet, under scrutiny, is not true.

    Besides, it's hard to leave a comfort zone, even if the truth is elsewhere. That's another reason some believe and others do not!

    For man, there is only one constant, and that is "change". Man changes throughout his whole time limited life. Yes, there are plateau's where it seems like no change is taking place, but that is deceptive at best, because change continues whether or not we want it. Some people struggle intensely to retain something that felt good and seemed right to them. When if they too had changed, they would be better off, because the truth truly does set you free.
     
    #23 Wes Outwest, May 17, 2005
  4. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    I voted "always believed" for the "TULI" doctrine.

    I left out the "P" because I stated "other" on that one.

    For me, it depends on how you define perseverance as to whether or not I believe it.

    I believe God perseveres in His work; that what He has done will always be done, but I do not believe that every child of God will always persevere himself in spirit and in truth.
     
    #24 Bro. James Reed, May 17, 2005
  5. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    Are you implying that Calvinism is a cult?
     
    #25 whetstone, May 17, 2005
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Never switched views because my views were always right. [​IMG]
     
    #26 dianetavegia, May 17, 2005
  7. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    Are you implying that Calvinism is a cult? </font>[/QUOTE]NO, cults emulate the church. However the church also emulates some aspects of Cults! In modern vernacular we would call it "brainwashing", or Pavlov syndrome!
     
    #27 Wes Outwest, May 17, 2005
  8. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    what percentage of Calvinists would you say are brainwashed?
     
    #28 whetstone, May 17, 2005
  9. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    well if you were converted- you had to switch your views. so you couldn't always have been right ;)
     
    #29 whetstone, May 17, 2005
  10. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    what percentage of Calvinists would you say are brainwashed? </font>[/QUOTE]0% are 100% brainwashed
    10% are 90% brainwashed
    20% are 80% brainwashed
    30% are 60% brainwashed
    20% are 40% brainwashed
    10% are 20% brainwashed
    10% are 10% brainwashed


    Incidentally, the same ratio applies to Arminians!
     
    #30 Wes Outwest, May 17, 2005
  11. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    I assume you have done extensive scientific study into this issue with years of research as well as a firm grasp on a clear unbiased way to determine 'brainwashed' in an individual? Do you find it at all absurd to claim knowing that someone is '60%' brainwashed? I'm shaking my head here trying to understand you Wes. And what percentage are 0% brainwashed?!
     
    #31 whetstone, May 18, 2005
  12. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    No, I graded on the bell curve!

    One must realize that there are few at either extreme. Most people are near the middle, no matter what your overall persuasion may be.

    Look at the politics in this country When was a president elected with more that 60% of the popular vote? When was one elected with less that 40% of the popular vote?

    Our Christian religion is like our politics in that regard. There is so little that divides us, and that "little" is routinely what the fringe can and does stir up.

    One does not need to do "extensive scientific study" to understand the principle. One needs only to observe, and I've been doing that for over 40 years.

    Do you realize why there is only one Gold medal to be won in any contest no matter how many are competing for it? The rule is that only one can be the champion. Every one else is "also ran".

    The law of averages tells us where the vast majority resides. Even so, the majority in the middle is not supposed to neglect the trailing minority, not to impede the leading minority. We are to discover ways to include them all, and the common denominator is FAITH in JESUS CHRIST!
     
    #32 Wes Outwest, May 18, 2005
  13. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    so i guess my next question is wes: Does the amount of brainwashing a person has alter a Biblical truth?
     
    #33 whetstone, May 18, 2005
  14. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    To that person!
     
    #34 Wes Outwest, May 18, 2005
  15. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    what i'm saying is this: Let's start with presupposition T=Calvinism is true.

    If person A is 100% brainwashed into believing that T is true- how is he wrong?

    If person B is 'not brainwashed' but rejects T even though T is presumed true- what does it matter if he isn't brainwashed?

    In other words- whether you are brainwashed or not is irrelevant to the objective truth T. All that matters is finding T and clinging to it.

    Some people are born and raised in a Christian environment and are 'brainwashed' into believing the Bible is true and Christ is God in human flesh without investigating the matter at all. Does their 'brainwashing' make their position wrong? I don't believe it does.
     
    #35 whetstone, May 18, 2005
  16. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi Whetstone;
    Then why did you respond. Just to juvinile your self to leave it alone?
    Mike
     
    #36 ILUVLIGHT, May 18, 2005
  17. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    4His_glory;
    Romans 11:11 Proves that election is of the whole world. If election is only for a few then you have to prove it's unconditional. You can't prove it unconditional as long as there are those who are not elected. There would have to be a reason. There always is. If so then God is a respecter of men.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
    Mike
     
    #37 ILUVLIGHT, May 18, 2005
  18. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi ScottJ;
    No I haven't. If election is unconditional then everyone would have to be included other wise God is respecting someone.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike
     
    #38 ILUVLIGHT, May 18, 2005
  19. whetstone

    whetstone <img src =/11288.jpg>

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    I responded to his later comments if you look. not the first comments. [​IMG]
     
    #39 whetstone, May 18, 2005
  20. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    No I haven't. If election is unconditional then everyone would have to be included other wise God is respecting someone.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike     </font>[/QUOTE]You are confusing unconditional with universal. The terms are not synonymous.

    Unconditional election is most definitely not a position which makes God out to be "respecting" someone. Unconditional election is the polar opposite of such an idea. It states that God has elected individuals without regard to anything about them. God has chosen for his own reasons, not because of anything special about the individuals elected.

    There is, therefore, no "condition" upon which God elects an individual.

    I don't hold to unconditional election, but I believe it needs to be fairly represented.
     
    #40 StefanM, May 18, 2005
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