He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified

[Iconoclast]

In another thread this verse in Hebrews 10:14 was being discussed;

I do not think it can be understood in any other way than what it says;
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us:

I see this-

This is speaking of the results of Our Great High Priest.

he did something.......HE HATH PERFECTED FOREVER.....

for someone.......THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.....

he actually accomplished this....FOR THEM...
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
I will put my laws into their hearts
This is the covenant that I will make with them
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us...


What do you see in this great passage?

 

[canadyjd]

In another thread this verse in Hebrews 10:14 was being discussed;.....

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
...he did something.......HE HATH PERFECTED FOREVER.....

for someone.......THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.....

What do you see in this great passage?

What does "sanctified" mean? Set apart? He didn't say "them that will be sanctified" at a future date, but they are already sanctified (set apart?)

He accomplished this work for a specific people already chosen by God, IMHO.

 

[Herald]

The author of Hebrews is using the past tense in the same way that Paul did in Romans:

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son , so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified (Romans 8:29-30).

Paul was able to speak of those who were not even born, but would come to faith in Christ, in the past tense. In the same manner all those who are sanctified (Hebrews 10:14) are all those who are in Christ throughout all time. Christ, acting in His high priestly role, made one offering that was acceptable to the Father, thus making the sanctified (the whole number of the elect) complete (or perfect).

 

[Iconoclast]

What does "sanctified" mean? Set apart? He didn't say "them that will be sanctified" at a future date, but they are already sanctified (set apart?)

He accomplished this work for a specific people already chosen by God, IMHO.

yes....it is clearly a Covenant transaction with a certain specific group of people in mind. I believe it is quite clearly all who will be saved from all time.
I do not think anyone can escape from the passage..them that ARE sanctified.

 

[Iconoclast]

The author of Hebrews is using the past tense in the same way that Paul did in Romans:



Paul was able to speak of those who were not even born, but would come to faith in Christ, in the past tense. In the same manner all those who are sanctified (Hebrews 10:14) are all those who are in Christ throughout all time. Christ, acting in His high priestly role, made one offering that was acceptable to Father, thus making the sanctified (the whole number of the elect) complete (or perfect).

This is a mountaintop passage in scripture as it describes the culmination of the work of the Servant of the Lord.:thumbs:

 

[clark thompson]

This is a great scripture about Jesus.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is a great scripture about Jesus.

Hello Clark.
Welcome to the BB.It is a great verse about our Great High Priest.In fact this
section of scripture highlights in great detail what most of the bible points to.

 

[Iconoclast]

John Gill could not be with us today, but he said this:

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

For by one offering,.... The same as before; himself, body and soul; this is a reason why he is set down, and will continue so for ever, and why he expects his enemies to be made his footstool; because by one sacrifice for sin, which he has once offered,

he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified; that is, who are sanctified by God the Father, Jde 1:1 or, who are set apart by him in eternal election, from the rest of the world, for his own use, service, and glory, to a state of grace and holiness here, and happiness hereafter; for this is not to be understood either of their being sanctified in Christ, though the Syriac version reads, "that are sanctified" in him, or by his Spirit, though both are true of the same persons; these Christ, by his sacrifice, has perfected, and has perfectly fulfilled the law for them; he has perfectly expiated their sins; he has obtained the full pardon of all their sins, and complete redemption; he has perfectly justified them from all things, and that for ever; which shows the continued virtue of Christ's sacrifice, in all generations, to all the elect of God, and the fulness and duration of their salvation; and so Christ by his one sacrifice did what the law, and all its sacrifices, could not do, Hebrews 10:1.

 

[Iconoclast]

Greek: mia gar prosphora teteleioken (3SRAI) eis to dienekes tous agiazomenous. (PPPMPA)
Amplified: For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
Barclay: For by one offering and for all time he perfectly gave us that cleansing we need to enter into the presence of God. (Westminster Press)
NLT: For by that one offering he perfected forever all those whom he is making holy. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: For by virtue of that one offering he has perfected for all time every one whom he makes holy. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Wuest: for by one offering He has brought to completion forever those who are set apart for God and His service. (Eerdmans)
Young's Literal: for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified

 

[HeirofSalvation]

I do not think anyone can escape from the passage..them that ARE sanctified.

What, exactly do you think is there that someone would seek to "escape" from? What is it specifically that this passage says which anyone would try to "escape" from? I don't see anything there which any Bible-Believer would seek to deny.

 

[Iconoclast]

What, exactly do you think is there that someone would seek to "escape" from? What is it specifically that this passage says which anyone would try to "escape" from? I don't see anything there which any Bible-Believer would seek to deny.

In another thread there was a discussion concerning the implications of the teaching of this verse in reference to the unsaved.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Yeah......read the thread I think you are talking about. I still didn't see any statement in that passage which anyone who believes the Bible would seek to deny or "escape" from. Only you, who made the statement, could (if you cared to) explain what statement in that passage any Bible-Believer would seek to escape from. The answer to that question (since it presumes I would know what you are thinking) is decidedly not self-evident to me.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yeah......read the thread I think you are talking about. I still didn't see any statement in that passage which anyone who believes the Bible would seek to deny or "escape" from. Only you, who made the statement, could (if you cared to) explain what statement in that passage any Bible-Believer would seek to escape from. The answer to that question (since it presumes I would know what you are thinking) is decidedly not self-evident to me.

I believe that anyone who reads the verse with any understanding at all,will see how the Covenant death accomplished at the cross only allows for the teaching of Particular and Definite Atonement.....Limited Atonement.

To attempt to explain it away, avoid it, or escape the clear implications of it,....knowingly....is sin . It is one thing if someone has not studied it and fails to come to grips with it. To see what it says and knowingly teach against it is exceedingly sinful.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

I believe that anyone who reads the verse with any understanding at all,will see how the Covenant death accomplished at the cross only allows for the teaching of Particular and Definite Atonement.....Limited Atonement.

O.K. where does the passage teach Limited Atonement?

To attempt to explain it away, avoid it, or escape the clear implications of it,....knowingly....is sin . It is one thing if someone has not studied it and fails to come to grips with it. To see what it says and knowingly teach against it is exceedingly sinful.

This passage from Hebrews is indeed one of my favourites as well. Where does it spell out Limited Atonement though? That's the part I don't understand. This passage is wonderful, but I see nothing any Bible-Believer would feel the need to "escape" from anything in it.

Perhaps you can demonstrate where that passage teaches a Limited Atonement.
What I see is a clear comparison between the imperfect and only temporary covering offered by the O.T. High Priests and the perfect and more importantly permanent sacrifice of the perfect High Priest:
Hbr 10:11 ¶ And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

The words I key in on are "stand" "daily" and "ofttimes".

contrast with Christ
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Notice Christ has "sat down"
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Contrast Christ's "ONE" offering to the "same sacrifices" and further contrast "forever" to the "daily" and "oftimes" of the Levitical Priest.

This is Paul explaining the point he already made in verse 9
Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Thus, for many of the reasons listed above, the New Covenant is vastly superior to the old.

I love this passage. There is nothing stated in that passage that I can fathom anyone who believes God's word denying or seeking to "escape". You apparently think there is: So, if you don't mind my asking.....which statement is it that you believe people seek to escape? Presumably, you are thinking of real people. I can't see which statement you are referring to though.

 

[Iconoclast]

Hos.
I agree with what you said about the verse....
there are three things to consider

Jesus is an actual;

1]Surety

2]Mediator

3] Eternal High Priest

Topic: Surety (Noun)
<1,,1450,enguos>
primarily signifies "bail," the bail who personally answers for anyone, whether with his life or his property (to be distinguished from mesites, "a mediator"); it is used in Heb. 7:22, "(by so much also hath Jesus become) the Surety (of a better covenant)," referring to the abiding and unchanging character of His Melchizdek priesthood, by reason of which His suretyship is established by God's oath (Heb. 7:20,21). As the Surety, He is the Personal guarantee of the terms of the new and better covenant, secured on the ground of His perfect sacrifice (Heb. 7:27).


In 10:14- we are told the identity of those who are the beneficiaries of these three offices

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified

Because He is Eternal...His work is Eternal...on behalf of THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.

He has accomplished it. ONCE for all time,and perfect. As surety.....He guarantees the work, as Mediator He substitutes for those who are sanctified,As Priest He ever lives to make INTERCESSION for THEM who are sanctified. No more No less.

 

[Winman]

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified

Because He is Eternal...His work is Eternal...on behalf of THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED.

He has accomplished it. ONCE for all time,and perfect. As surety.....He guarantees the work, as Mediator He substitutes for those who are sanctified,As Priest He ever lives to make INTERCESSION for THEM who are sanctified. No more No less.

You don't get it, you are reading Limited Atonement into this scripture when it is not there.

Just because scripture says Jesus died for the elect does not mean he did not die for those who are not elect.

An example- If I say "I love my children", does that mean that I only love MY children? Does it mean I do not love my nephews and nieces who are children? Does it mean I do not love the dozens of children at my church?

NO. But that is what you are doing, you are reading Limited Atonement into scripture when it is not there. The fact that Jesus's sacrifice has once and for all perfected those that are sanctified does not mean Jesus did not also die for those who do not believe and are not saved. You are inserting that into the scripture here, it says no such thing.

See, this is what happens when you mindlessly let others tell you what to think and do not give serious thought to the scripture yourself. You do not even realize you are being misled.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

NO. But that is what you are doing, you are reading Limited Atonement into scripture when it is not there. The fact that Jesus's sacrifice has once and for all perfected those that are sanctified does not mean Jesus did not also die for those who do not believe and are not saved. You are inserting that into the scripture here, it says no such thing.

Explain how you think Jesus is an Actual ...Surety, Mediator,and Eternal High Priest for those .....WHO ARE NOT SANCTIFIED...

Explain as the texts I offer say He is....

 

[Winman]

Winman

Explain how you think Jesus is an Actual ...Surety, Mediator,and Eternal High Priest for those .....WHO ARE NOT SANCTIFIED...

Explain as the texts I offer say He is....

He performed all this work for EVERY man, but it only profits those who access this grace by faith (Rom 5:2)

I have given the analogy before, let's say I purchase a Super Bowl ticket for every single member here at BB. I then make a public post and tell everyone I have bought them a ticket, and if they will only PM their address to me, I will mail it to them.

Now, did I buy and pay for a ticket for every member? YES.

But only those who believe my promise and PM me will get a ticket. Those who fail to PM me because they do not take my offer seriously, or those who do not desire a ticket will not receive one.

Does that negate that I bought everyone a ticket? NO.

There are many scriptures that say Jesus died for all men, or every man.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Does this verse say Jesus is the mediator between God and the elect? NO, it says "men". Does it say Jesus gave himself as a ransom for only the elect? NO, it says "all".

You must redefine scripture to make this fit your theology, but the plain and natural reading is that Jesus is the mediator for MEN and that he gave his life a ransom for ALL.

Now, I could list many other verses that plainly say Jesus died for all men. You know that, you have seen them many times, and you will attempt to explain them away.

I would be highly suspicious of a system that requires you to explain away so much scripture, that must constantly REDEFINE the definitions of words. That this does not alarm folks to me is astonishing.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Winman



Explain how you think Jesus is an Actual ...Surety, Mediator,and Eternal High Priest for those .....WHO ARE NOT SANCTIFIED...

Explain as the texts I offer say He is....

Here's the thing........it doesn't say anything about those who are not sanctified. It merely says that he "perfects" those who ARE sanctified. That's ALL the information it gives. It doesn't tell us everything there is to know in all of Scripture about Salvation. It says he perfected those who ARE.........and it is indeed "actual" and "finished" and every other adverb you want.

But it simply says NOTHING about those who aren't (mainly because he indeed hasn't perfected them).

You are essentially making an "argument from ignorance" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance which is to say that you are claiming that since it says nothing about the un-saved (that's the ignorance: no information whatsoever) that there is SOMETHING about them that you can learn. But that's not true. It's an invalid line of thinkng. There is no conclusion you can logically draw between what he HAS DONE for those he mentioned (the sanctified) and those he hasn't.
The quick conclusion from the article "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

That's why I ask you to show where it says ANYTHING about the unsanctified.........it doesn't.

POSSIBLY (according to the text as written) the Scriptures COULD just as easily add a later verse which says something like:
(so also does he perfect the un-sanctified)........or that he WILL or that he ALSO already has. <-----of course it doesn't and it won't and I'm not saying it does:
I am just illustrating that there are simply NO correct conclusions you can draw about the status of the "unsanctified" in the passage you quote.

They......are........not.......mentioned.

 

[Winman]

Here's the thing........it doesn't say anything about those who are not sanctified. It merely says that he "perfects" those who ARE sanctified. That's ALL the information it gives. It doesn't tell us everything there is to know in all of Scripture about Salvation. It says he perfected those who ARE.........and it is indeed "actual" and "finished" and every other adverb you want.

But it simply says NOTHING about those who aren't (mainly because he indeed hasn't perfected them).

You are essentially making an "argument from ignorance" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance which is to say that you are claiming that since it says nothing about the un-saved (that's the ignorance: no information whatsoever) that there is SOMETHING about them that you can learn. But that's not true. It's an invalid line of thinkng. There is no conclusion you can logically draw between what he HAS DONE for those he mentioned (the sanctified) and those he hasn't.

That's where I ask you to show where it says ANYTHING about the unsanctified.........it doesn't.

POSSIBLY (according to the text as written) the Scriptures COULD just as easily add a later verse which says something like:
(so also does he perfect the un-sanctified)........or that he WILL or that he ALSO already has. <-----of course it doesn't and it won't and I'm not saying it does:
I am just illustrating that there are simply NO correct conclusions you can draw about the status of the "unsanctified" in the passage you quote.

They......are........not.......mentioned.

Yes, he doesn't get it, he is reading Limited Atonement into scripture without warrant.

Many Calvinists believe themselves intellectually superior to non-Calvinists, but the reality is that they do not truly think out their own arguments. For the most part, they just blindly believe and follow what they have been told.