Winman.....I am P.M. 'ing you for my TICKET!!!!!!!
:thumbs:
:thumbs:
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He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
OK, I better make this clear;
I cannot possibly buy anyone here at BB (or elsewhere) a Super Bowl ticket.
I have 8 children and drive a 1991 Honda Accord with over 270,000 miles on it. I do not drive an old car because I prefer to drive an old car, but because it is all I can afford.
So, no way you are getting a ticket! :laugh:
DrJamesAch
New Member
This is a very gross implication of this verse. This verse does not say that He has SAVED them that are sanctified, but has PERFECTED them that are sanctified.
μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν[Perfect Active Indicative] εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς ἁγιαζομένους[PRESENT Passive Participle]
The present passive participle clearly shows that this is not a reference to some group that was elected in the past, and then preserved by some infinite progressive sanctification that BEGAN in the past.
The point that Paul was making was that the Jews practiced sacrifices on a CONTINUAL basis, and that now, ONE SACRIFICE is all that was necessary.
The simple meaning of the verse is that God keeps on perfecting them who are saved based on a sacrifice that only needed to be done ONCE. It would be absurd to think that any unsaved person is being perfected so OF COURSE it's talking about those who are sanctified. This verse has the same meaning as Philippians 1:6:
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"
"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" Ephesians 4:12
"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." Phil 3:12
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2
Winman
That is not addressing my response to you,and is avoiding the clear teaching of the passage.....The text does not say that he did these things for everyman at all. It makes a point of saying He perfected forever THEM...that are sanctified.....that is a select multitude of persons
If he did it for ALL men ever born...he would not have to distinguish saying for them....as that would be assumed. Deal with this Chapter, in fact...lets do this.....read from chapter 6:11- through Chapter ten....
I asked about three things, that you need to speak to without running away from this book.
How is Jesus a surety for those in hell? How does he guarantee eternal life and forgiveness of sins for them in hell?
How is he mediator for them in hell?
How is he interceding at the right hand having sat down...as Hos pointed to in the text...meaning an eternally finished work completed for those in hell?
All the other verses...mostly 6 verses.....we can get to....after these are addressed.
Winman I do not think you or anyone can undo what God has done.
You say I am being mis-lead and a robot ,etc.....but it is you who are trying to insert any conditional idea, in what is addressed as a completed work as the scripture could not say it any clearer.
No one can undo these texts,especially as you focus on the Covenant work and aspect of the priestly work.....that is unique to OUR LORD.
That is not addressing my response to you,and is avoiding the clear teaching of the passage.....The text does not say that he did these things for everyman at all. It makes a point of saying He perfected forever THEM...that are sanctified.....that is a select multitude of persons
If he did it for ALL men ever born...he would not have to distinguish saying for them....as that would be assumed. Deal with this Chapter, in fact...lets do this.....read from chapter 6:11- through Chapter ten....
I asked about three things, that you need to speak to without running away from this book.
How is Jesus a surety for those in hell? How does he guarantee eternal life and forgiveness of sins for them in hell?
How is he mediator for them in hell?
How is he interceding at the right hand having sat down...as Hos pointed to in the text...meaning an eternally finished work completed for those in hell?
All the other verses...mostly 6 verses.....we can get to....after these are addressed.
Winman I do not think you or anyone can undo what God has done.
You say I am being mis-lead and a robot ,etc.....but it is you who are trying to insert any conditional idea, in what is addressed as a completed work as the scripture could not say it any clearer.
No one can undo these texts,especially as you focus on the Covenant work and aspect of the priestly work.....that is unique to OUR LORD.
Iconoclast
As HoS and DrAch have said, Hebrews 10:14 does not address Limited Atonement at all. You are inserting that into the text. That is what I have also tried to tell you.
That is why I gave you the example, if I were to say, "I love my children", does that mean I love ONLY my children? NO, it does not address other children at all, I happen to be telling you I love my own children, but I am not telling you they are the only children I love. I am only talking about my children at this time.
Hebrew 10:14 is saying that by one sacrifice Jesus has perfected them that are sanctified as every one here has told you. This verse is not speaking about unsaved persons at all. It is not saying Jesus died for only some persons, you are reading that into the text when there is not one word to that effect mentioned here.
Even after 3 people have explained this to you, you still cannot grasp that you are reading your presuppositions into scripture.
Now, on the other hand, 1 Tim 2:6-7 directly addresses who Jesus died for;
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 10:14 cannot answer your question, because it only pertains to saved persons. That is the only persons that verse is talking about.
1 Timothy 2:6-7 on the other hand is speaking of MEN. Not the elect, MEN. And it says Jesus gave himself a ransom for ALL, not the elect, ALL.
There is your answer, Jesus is the mediator between God and MEN. And Jesus gave himself a ransom for ALL.
Now, there is your answer.
As HoS and DrAch have said, Hebrews 10:14 does not address Limited Atonement at all. You are inserting that into the text. That is what I have also tried to tell you.
That is why I gave you the example, if I were to say, "I love my children", does that mean I love ONLY my children? NO, it does not address other children at all, I happen to be telling you I love my own children, but I am not telling you they are the only children I love. I am only talking about my children at this time.
Hebrew 10:14 is saying that by one sacrifice Jesus has perfected them that are sanctified as every one here has told you. This verse is not speaking about unsaved persons at all. It is not saying Jesus died for only some persons, you are reading that into the text when there is not one word to that effect mentioned here.
Even after 3 people have explained this to you, you still cannot grasp that you are reading your presuppositions into scripture.
Now, on the other hand, 1 Tim 2:6-7 directly addresses who Jesus died for;
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 10:14 cannot answer your question, because it only pertains to saved persons. That is the only persons that verse is talking about.
1 Timothy 2:6-7 on the other hand is speaking of MEN. Not the elect, MEN. And it says Jesus gave himself a ransom for ALL, not the elect, ALL.
There is your answer, Jesus is the mediator between God and MEN. And Jesus gave himself a ransom for ALL.
Now, there is your answer.
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Winman
That is why you and they are mistaken.
For the third time now you post fails to address what I asked you to answer.
I know you cannot answer because your theology cannot cover it without showing itself to be defective.
Here is what I asked you about.....not super bowl tickets, or what paul wrote to Timothy....I asked you to address HEBREWS....
I asked You to answer this:
That is not addressing my response to you,and is avoiding the clear teaching of the passage.....The text does not say that he did these things for everyman at all. It makes a point of saying He perfected forever THEM...that are sanctified.....that is a select multitude of persons
If he did it for ALL men ever born...he would not have to distinguish saying for them....as that would be assumed. Deal with this Chapter, in fact...lets do this.....read from chapter 6:11- through Chapter ten....
I asked about three things, that you need to speak to without running away from this book.
How is Jesus a surety for those in hell?
How does he guarantee eternal life and forgiveness of sins for them in hell?
How is he mediator for them in hell?
How is he interceding at the right hand having sat down...as Hos pointed to in the text...meaning an eternally finished work completed for those in hell?
All the other verses...mostly 6 verses.....we can get to....after these are addressed.
Winman I do not think you or anyone can undo what God has done.
Show How the UNSANCTIFIED benefit in any way from what Is spoken of here ...for them that are sanctified.....
Jesus is not going to do anymore for any who are unsanctified...HE SAT DOWN.....He ACCOMPLISHED it.
STAY in this book....
Winman....do you understand what a surety is?
Jesus Is the ACTUAL surety...not potential
He is the Actual Mediator of the Covenant...not potential
He is the Actual High Priest...not potential....
Deal with this POST...LINE by LINE please....:thumbs:
Your "example" is given in place of a valid response, because you cannot, so you are looking to escape the wording in the passage that I am asking you to address.
Winman....I started the thread...no one has to tell me that it is speaking of them that are sanctified....
Oh yes there is...THEM who are sanctified.
Then show it in this next post answering to me...
:type::type:
That is why you and they are mistaken.
For the third time now you post fails to address what I asked you to answer.
I know you cannot answer because your theology cannot cover it without showing itself to be defective.
Here is what I asked you about.....not super bowl tickets, or what paul wrote to Timothy....I asked you to address HEBREWS....
I asked You to answer this:
That is not addressing my response to you,and is avoiding the clear teaching of the passage.....The text does not say that he did these things for everyman at all. It makes a point of saying He perfected forever THEM...that are sanctified.....that is a select multitude of persons
If he did it for ALL men ever born...he would not have to distinguish saying for them....as that would be assumed. Deal with this Chapter, in fact...lets do this.....read from chapter 6:11- through Chapter ten....
I asked about three things, that you need to speak to without running away from this book.
How is Jesus a surety for those in hell?
How does he guarantee eternal life and forgiveness of sins for them in hell?
How is he mediator for them in hell?
How is he interceding at the right hand having sat down...as Hos pointed to in the text...meaning an eternally finished work completed for those in hell?
All the other verses...mostly 6 verses.....we can get to....after these are addressed.
Winman I do not think you or anyone can undo what God has done.
Show How the UNSANCTIFIED benefit in any way from what Is spoken of here ...for them that are sanctified.....
Jesus is not going to do anymore for any who are unsanctified...HE SAT DOWN.....He ACCOMPLISHED it.
STAY in this book....
Winman....do you understand what a surety is?
Jesus Is the ACTUAL surety...not potential
He is the Actual Mediator of the Covenant...not potential
He is the Actual High Priest...not potential....
Deal with this POST...LINE by LINE please....:thumbs:
Your "example" is given in place of a valid response, because you cannot, so you are looking to escape the wording in the passage that I am asking you to address.
Winman....I started the thread...no one has to tell me that it is speaking of them that are sanctified....
Not directly.....but according to your theology it should .The unsaved are in view as they are in contrast to those who are sanctified.
you are reading that into the text when
Oh yes there is...THEM who are sanctified.
Then show it in this next post answering to me...
:type::type:
Icon,
You're doing a good job trying to focus on the text in Hebrews and not getting lured down rabbit trails that go nowhere. I am not able to read everything your opponents are writing, but I am confident they have not dealt with the identity of "those" in Hebrews 10:14. Who are the "those" the author of Hebrews references?
Back in verse 10 we read, "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." In the first verse of the chapter the author writes, "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near" (emphasis mine). The author has created a category ("those who are sanctified"; verse 14) and a condition ("through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ" verse 10). These are combined in verse 14 where he writes about those in the category he established and the condition they had to meet in order to be part of that category. Logically those who are not part of the category (because they did not meet the condition) are excluded.
Opponents of definite atonement believe this argument unintentionally prevents sinners from being sanctified or at least confuses the issue. That is mostly due to a misunderstanding of what the author is writing about. The author is not writing to exclude anybody from the benefits of the atonement. He is writing to explain that Jesus Christ is God's one sufficient sacrifice for sin. All those who repent of their sins and come to Christ by faith a) met the condition ~and~ b) are then categorized as "sanctified". "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31).
So how is definite atonement seen in Hebrews 10? It is not through eisegesis, but through a logical reading of the chapter. The author is is writing about those who are sanctified. "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified" (verse 14). Are those who do not meet the condition sanctified? Have they been perfected? Not unless they eventually meet the condition.
You're doing a good job trying to focus on the text in Hebrews and not getting lured down rabbit trails that go nowhere. I am not able to read everything your opponents are writing, but I am confident they have not dealt with the identity of "those" in Hebrews 10:14. Who are the "those" the author of Hebrews references?
Back in verse 10 we read, "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." In the first verse of the chapter the author writes, "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near" (emphasis mine). The author has created a category ("those who are sanctified"; verse 14) and a condition ("through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ" verse 10). These are combined in verse 14 where he writes about those in the category he established and the condition they had to meet in order to be part of that category. Logically those who are not part of the category (because they did not meet the condition) are excluded.
Opponents of definite atonement believe this argument unintentionally prevents sinners from being sanctified or at least confuses the issue. That is mostly due to a misunderstanding of what the author is writing about. The author is not writing to exclude anybody from the benefits of the atonement. He is writing to explain that Jesus Christ is God's one sufficient sacrifice for sin. All those who repent of their sins and come to Christ by faith a) met the condition ~and~ b) are then categorized as "sanctified". "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31).
So how is definite atonement seen in Hebrews 10? It is not through eisegesis, but through a logical reading of the chapter. The author is is writing about those who are sanctified. "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified" (verse 14). Are those who do not meet the condition sanctified? Have they been perfected? Not unless they eventually meet the condition.
Iconoclast said:
HoS and I both answered this, Hebrews 10:14 simply does not address the unsaved at all.
That said, HoS correctly told you that Jesus did not perfect unbelievers. God's grace does not apply to unbelievers. Grace is accessed by faith (Rom 5:2).
This does not mean Jesus did not die for unbelievers, 1 Tim 2:6-7 shows he did.
You are still not getting it, Heb 10:14 is not saying ANYTHING about unbelievers. Zilch, nada, ZERO, null... It is not saying anything FOR or AGAINST unbelievers, it is simply not talking about them at all. Why can't you understand this?
Did what?? Perfected unbelievers? NO, only believers are perfected. Die for unbelievers? YES, Jesus died for ALL.
You cannot distinguish between Jesus perfecting those who are sanctified and those he gave his life as a ransom for, those are two completely different subjects.
No, he is not a surety for those in hell, it is TOO LATE for them. You must believe while you are alive.
No, you must access God's grace while you are still alive.
Now, while they were alive he WAS their mediator. A mediator is like an attorney that represents you. If they would have applied by faith to Jesus, he would have been their mediator and they would not have gone to hell. But once you are dead it is too late.
Again, they are dead and have passed up their chance to have Jesus as their mediator.
If O.J. Simpson had passed up Johnny Cochran, he would have probably been convicted of murder.
Now, you are not going to like these answers, but they are the answers. Has Jesus by one sacrifice perfected unbelievers? NO, because they have not applied by faith to God's grace. Now, if they believe, then yes, Jesus by one sacrifice has perfected them. The perfect payment has been made, but they have not accessed it by faith.
See, your mind is so dominated by Reformed thought you are unable to see or understand any other view, even if it is scriptural.
Jesus is the Mediator for all men while they are alive and they can surely apply to him, but once they are dead it is too late.
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convicted1
Guest
Two please......
convicted1
Guest
I am exercising YOUR free will, and bending it to "my will" and say again, "two please".....or else.... :tongue3:
Sorry i could not respond sooner, had some work done on my trailer,lost time200 miles worth...skipped my dinner breaks to tighten up and get back on schedule.
your first post was dead on....I will seek to establish it later on tonight in 5-6 hrs when i can sit,,,
yes ..these are the verses ,in part that i will tie together later....
Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
I will show how these all link to chapters 9 and 10...as a unit...not as isolated promise verses....
Glad the section triggered good thoughts for the lesson....I find this a proper section for communion meditation...more later...
Ach,
Good verses...and yes I am aware that it is speaking in the verse about those being sanctified.....it does not work against where i am going with this...cannot do more now.....later on tonight.
Hos ,Winman,RM,
I will answer more later tonight...must make up a couple of hundred miles...lol...will tie it together later...who knows...you might like it:thumbsup:
Ach
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How were the several hundred miles? smooth I hope?
HeirofSalvation
The whole book is written as an exhortation to believers not to draw back unto perdition...In Contrast...believers are being told why and how they are to DRAW NEAR
Yes..it says He perfects them who are being sanctified....he already has established in Heb10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
I posted this also to ACH.
J.F.B Commentary
"THROUGH the offering … of Christ," the instrumental or mediatory cause. The whole work of redemption flows from "the will" of God the Father, as the First Cause, who decreed redemption from before the foundation of the world. The "will" here (boulema) is His absolute sovereign will. His "good will" (eudokia) is a particular aspect of it.
are sanctified—once for all, and as our permanent state (so the Greek). It is the finished work of Christ in having sanctified us (that is, having translated us from a state of unholy alienation into a state of consecration to God, having "no more conscience of sin," Heb 10:2) once for all and permanently, not the process of gradual sanctification, which is here referred to.
Herald spotted it in his post and correctly put the emphasis where it belongs;
---
Back in verse 10 we read, "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." In the first verse of the chapter the author writes, "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near" (emphasis mine). The author has created a category ("those who are sanctified"; verse 14) and a condition ("through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ" verse 10). These are combined in verse 14 where he writes about those in the category he established and the condition they had to meet in order to be part of that category. Logically those who are not part of the category (because they did not meet the condition) are excluded.
Okay if you want to "see it",you must follow the books revelation of the work of the Great High Priest..not only as the once for all sacrifice..but as He accomplishes redemption.
The writer was doing it in chapter 2,and 4, when he starts to develop teaching about the priestly work and what is accomplished...not potential but actual.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, [B]to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. [/B]
** notice he took on actual sins plural...not just sin in general**
-4 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
***the teaching of the priestly work is clearly and consistently addressed to the people who are drawing near, holding fast***
he wants to explain more.....but the people are dull of hearing....
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
He wants now to tie in the Covenant of Redemption, and the mediator of the Covenant,as Surety....
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
He links these who have draw near,come boldly to the throne of grace to Jesus as eternal High Priest ,Mediator, and Surety;
Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[1.] , a “surety,” is one that undertaketh for another
wherein he is defective, really or in reputation. Whatever that undertaking
be, whether in words of promise, or in depositing of real security in the
hands of an arbitrator, or by any other personal engagement of life and
body, it respects the defect of the person for whom any one becomes a
surety. Such an one is sponsor,
[1.] He undertook, as the surety of the covenant, to answer for all the sins
of those who are to be and are made partakers of the benefits of it; — that
is, to undergo the punishment due unto their sins; to make atonement for
them, by offering himself a propitiatory sacrifice for their expiation;
redeeming them by the price of his blood from their state of misery and
bondage under the law and the curse of it, Isaiah 53:4-6, 10;
Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:6; 1 Corinthians 6:20; Romans
3:25, 26; Hebrews 10:5-10; Romans 8:2, 3; 2 Corinthians 5:19-
21;
John Owen...
Exactly...so where does it leave anyone else who could be described as not having an;
Eternal High Priest
An Once for all sacrifice
A Surety guaranteeing the terms of the Covenant
The One mediator
Where does it leave the unsanctified, those who draw back, those with no surety? they are spoken of in contrast to those in Covenant who benefit from Our Lord's Work which we are told...he already accomplished it?
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Those that are called are the sanctified,and those being sanctified;;;
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
The only ignorance would be not reading the book of Hebrews as a whole book with understanding of the Covenant nature of the atonement
One verse that is addressing the Sanctified does not because in a positive way it is showing the contrast with those who are not sanctified as the writer does all through the book...
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The whole book is written as an exhortation to believers not to draw back unto perdition...In Contrast...believers are being told why and how they are to DRAW NEAR
Yes..it says He perfects them who are being sanctified....he already has established in Heb10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
I posted this also to ACH.
J.F.B Commentary
"THROUGH the offering … of Christ," the instrumental or mediatory cause. The whole work of redemption flows from "the will" of God the Father, as the First Cause, who decreed redemption from before the foundation of the world. The "will" here (boulema) is His absolute sovereign will. His "good will" (eudokia) is a particular aspect of it.
are sanctified—once for all, and as our permanent state (so the Greek). It is the finished work of Christ in having sanctified us (that is, having translated us from a state of unholy alienation into a state of consecration to God, having "no more conscience of sin," Heb 10:2) once for all and permanently, not the process of gradual sanctification, which is here referred to.
Herald spotted it in his post and correctly put the emphasis where it belongs;
---
Back in verse 10 we read, "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." In the first verse of the chapter the author writes, "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near" (emphasis mine). The author has created a category ("those who are sanctified"; verse 14) and a condition ("through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ" verse 10). These are combined in verse 14 where he writes about those in the category he established and the condition they had to meet in order to be part of that category. Logically those who are not part of the category (because they did not meet the condition) are excluded.
Okay if you want to "see it",you must follow the books revelation of the work of the Great High Priest..not only as the once for all sacrifice..but as He accomplishes redemption.
The writer was doing it in chapter 2,and 4, when he starts to develop teaching about the priestly work and what is accomplished...not potential but actual.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, [B]to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. [/B]
** notice he took on actual sins plural...not just sin in general**
-4 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
***the teaching of the priestly work is clearly and consistently addressed to the people who are drawing near, holding fast***
he wants to explain more.....but the people are dull of hearing....
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
He wants now to tie in the Covenant of Redemption, and the mediator of the Covenant,as Surety....
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
He links these who have draw near,come boldly to the throne of grace to Jesus as eternal High Priest ,Mediator, and Surety;
Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[1.] , a “surety,” is one that undertaketh for another
wherein he is defective, really or in reputation. Whatever that undertaking
be, whether in words of promise, or in depositing of real security in the
hands of an arbitrator, or by any other personal engagement of life and
body, it respects the defect of the person for whom any one becomes a
surety. Such an one is sponsor,
[1.] He undertook, as the surety of the covenant, to answer for all the sins
of those who are to be and are made partakers of the benefits of it; — that
is, to undergo the punishment due unto their sins; to make atonement for
them, by offering himself a propitiatory sacrifice for their expiation;
redeeming them by the price of his blood from their state of misery and
bondage under the law and the curse of it, Isaiah 53:4-6, 10;
Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:6; 1 Corinthians 6:20; Romans
3:25, 26; Hebrews 10:5-10; Romans 8:2, 3; 2 Corinthians 5:19-
21;
John Owen...
Exactly...so where does it leave anyone else who could be described as not having an;
Eternal High Priest
An Once for all sacrifice
A Surety guaranteeing the terms of the Covenant
The One mediator
Where does it leave the unsanctified, those who draw back, those with no surety? they are spoken of in contrast to those in Covenant who benefit from Our Lord's Work which we are told...he already accomplished it?
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Those that are called are the sanctified,and those being sanctified;;;
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
The only ignorance would be not reading the book of Hebrews as a whole book with understanding of the Covenant nature of the atonement
One verse that is addressing the Sanctified does not because in a positive way it is showing the contrast with those who are not sanctified as the writer does all through the book...
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
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Started in Oregon, got into Wyoming by about 2am....the reefer unit {fridge] on the trailer was malfunctioning so i had to wait for 5 hours[repairs} when i would have been driving....I can still get it done, but these last few years are beating me up a bit...getting older now....breaking down as the outward man perishes:laugh: I post late at night mostly till i burn out.
Sit in the truckstop...sometimes the Lord provides some evangelistic opportunities...a real good one two nights ago In Washington...and last night in Oregon...
That is why I take a long time to post..besides I type at turtle speed...
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saturneptune
New Member
Do you ever drive through Western Kentucky in McCracken County or near Paducah or Lone Oak? If you ever do, or know in advance you are coming through, please let me know. It would be an honor to meet you face to face, and no doubt Brother Tom feels the same way. I can PM you a phone number if this ever happens.
Back to the op, the passage has several meanings to me. First, santification means to me becoming more like Jesus each day. That in itself is a wonderful promise. It takes the "if" out of things like keeping ones's salvation and persisting to the end.
The passage confirms God's sovereignty, election, eternal security, irresistible grace, enduring to the end, grabbing the eternal prize as Paul puts it, and being a member of God's family. Sanctification is a life long process, as God never stops molding us into His son. When we get off track, the Holy Spirit will snap us back on track in short order. If one is not snapped back, over a reasonable period of time, then the Holy Spirit was not present in the first place.
Christ tells us not to worry in Matthew, but what a burden for those who believe in losing salvation, or reject eternal security. That would be enough to drive anyone nuts. Someone would constantly be worrying, if that they do, think, or say today will take them over the unsaved line. To add to that, no one knows when they are going to die. If I lose my salvation, how can I get it back???
If one has their eyes focused on Jesus, the "I" questions are few are far between. That is a burden I want no part of. If one has faith that Jesus saved us in the first place, why is it so hard to have the faith that He can carry us to glorification?