He That Overcometh!

[Dave G]

Surrender is a work.

Some have called it, "Lordship Salvation", in that, unless a person comes to Christ and lays down their life and will in favor of His, then they cannot be saved.

To me, the person who preaches this, makes the evidence of someone being saved, into a prerequisite in order to be born again.
I've even seen it being included as part of the "sinner's prayer".

It kind of goes like this:
" I promise to lay down my life for you, and do anything you ask...if only you'll save me."

I used to believe that it was biblical.
But I later discovered that it doesn't come from the Bible.

 

[Benjamin]

Surrender is a work.

No more than the pride of not surrendering.

 

[Benjamin]

in terms of experience i can only speak for my self - it took years for me to walk with Him hand in hand.

I know the feeling, I was 35 years old and totally broken before I overcame my pride and took His hand.

 

[robycop3]

For the OP of this thread, the "7 church age" doctrine is false, simple as THAT !

And we see more "worx" silliness. To be saved takes ACTION by the person being saved; no way around it. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing, by the word of God. Hearing is an ACTION. faith is an ACTION. Calling on the name of the Lord is an ACTION. And actions are worx.

"Not by works" means one isn't saved by just doing good deeds without any faith in Jesus, nor belief. It does NOT meen good worx are actually bad! Let's not become obsessed over worx in salvation.

 

[MB]

No 37818 Surrender is a work but it FOLLOWS after SALVATION.
No person can surrender to GOD without the Spirit residing in him/her.

Surrender is giving up the rebellion. So how is it you see it as a work?
MB

 

[HankD]

Surrender is giving up the rebellion. So how is it you see it as a work?
MB

Because MB it is a post salvation action and comes under the purview of Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We must cooperate with the Spirit of Christ in expediting our maturity
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Some things take time
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The word for changed is metamorphoo

 

[robycop3]

Scripture also sez faith without worx is dead. What God is telling us that faith in Jesus & good worx go hand-in-hand; neither is any good without the other.

 

[Van]

It is sad to see claims that putting our faith and belief in Christ constitutes a works based salvation. Paul teaches specifically it is not works. Romans 4:4-5.

How do we become "overcomers?" By putting our faith toward Christ? Nope. By God crediting our faith toward Christ as righteousness? Yep.

We do make ourselves overcomers, God does!

Automatic salvation based on professing faith is false doctrine.

 

[MB]

Because MB it is a post salvation action and comes under the purview of Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We must cooperate with the Spirit of Christ in expediting our maturity
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Some things take time
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The word for changed is metamorphoo

The surrender I'm speaking of is the rebellion all sinners have. Your thinking like a Calvinist.We cannot be saved unless we do surrender. That is to accept the offer of Salvation from Christ. Rebellion is a fight against it and Surrender is giving up that fight. Calvinist try to make everything a work for Salvation. I'm surprised that you haven't claimed that breathing is a work.
Paul surrendered in;
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
One minute Paul is out to be killing Christians and the next he asked Christ what would He have him do. That is surrender.
MB

 

[HankD]

The surrender I'm speaking of is the rebellion all sinners have. Your thinking like a Calvinist.We cannot be saved unless we do surrender. That is to accept the offer of Salvation from Christ. Rebellion is a fight against it and Surrender is giving up that fight. Calvinist try to make everything a work for Salvation. I'm surprised that you haven't claimed that breathing is a work.
Paul surrendered in;
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
One minute Paul is out to be killing Christians and the next he asked Christ what would He have him do. That is surrender.
MB

we have a difference of opinion MB.

 

[Benjamin]

The surrender I'm speaking of is the rebellion all sinners have.

I agree, and would say the surrendering Hank speaks about, which is greatly enhanced in being a child of God after salvation, does not eliminate the natural God given ability and responsibility to surrender to God's influences before one is saved. In fact, these divine influences of truth are clearly seen so there is no excuse not to surrender...Romans 1:19-20 ...and God will judge justly and in the truth accordingly regarding one's heart in the matter...Deuteronomy 32:4...

 

[MB]

we have a difference of opinion MB.

I've known that for a long time Hank. We have many differences in opinion.
MB

 

[Benjamin]

Yeah, I value Hank’s opinions, regardless, or I wouldn’t ask for them. He’s beat me to punch around here enough, taken the words right out of my mouth enough, came up with that scripture I was looking for enough to know he’s a pretty good asset to have around.

 

[Samuels]

And who is he that overcometh the world,
but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 Jn 5

Sorry, but when John talks about "the world",
he usually is referring to "the world of unbelievers".

So yes, BACs have overcome (risen above, etc.) these poor people.

Here is Jesus' definition of who an "overcomer" is ...

"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
(Revelation 3:21)

What and who did Jesus overcome? ... temptation, sin, the flesh, the devil, persecution, etc.

 

[MB]

Yeah, I value Hank’s opinions, regardless, or I wouldn’t ask for them. He’s beat me to punch around here enough, taken the words right out of my mouth enough, came up with that scripture I was looking for enough to know he’s a pretty good asset to have around.

True He maybe a Calvinist but I like him.
MB

 

[MB]

Sorry, but when John talks about "the world",
he usually is referring to "the world of unbelievers".

So yes, BACs have overcome (risen above, etc.) these poor people.

Here is Jesus' definition of who an "overcomer" is ...

"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
(Revelation 3:21)

What and who did Jesus overcome? ... temptation, sin, the flesh, the devil, persecution, etc.

You're right he did that for us not Him Self and because He did, it's even more simple for us. All we have to do is believe in Him and we have over come as well.
MB

 

[HankD]

True He maybe a Calvinist but I like him.
MB

I'm not a Calvinist, I'm a mugwump.

 

[Van]

I'm not a Calvinist, I'm a mugwump.

Which of the points of the TULIP do you claim are as bogus as a three dollar bill?

 

[HankD]

Which of the points of the TULIP do you claim are as bogus as a three dollar bill?

I find fault with all of them, some more than others.

e.g. TOTAL DEPRAVITY.
How can we be totally depraved if we are made in the image and likeness of God?
So I would say apart from the image of GOD we are totally depraved.

 

[Van]

I find fault with all of them, some more than others.

e.g. TOTAL DEPRAVITY.
How can we be totally depraved if we are made in the image and likeness of God?
So I would say apart from the image of GOD we are totally depraved.

Folks, how many of you think "find fault with all of them" means HankD believes they are bogus?

1) Do spiritually dead lost individuals have the spiritual ability to appropriately respond to the milk of the gospel? Did HankD answer with a NO or a YES?

2) Were we chosen through faith in the truth, as per 2 Thessalonians 2:13, or were we chosen individually unconditionally? What was HankD's answer? I do not know either.

3) Did Christ die for all mankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved? Or did Christ only die for the individuals supposedly chosen before they were created? Who knows where HankD stands?

4) Are we compelled irresistibly to "willingly" believe in Christ, or does God give us the choice? Who knows where HankD stands.

5) Once Saved are we Always Saved, or can we decide become "un-born anew" after we have been born anew? Who knows where HankD stands?

My non-Calvinist answers (except #5) are: Yes the lost can appropriately respond to the milk of the gospel. Yes we were chosen through faith in the truth, a conditional election. Yes, Christ died for all mankind. Yes God gives us the choice to trust in Christ, rather than compelled to believe. Yes, once we are saved, we are always saved, and cannot lose our salvation.