He treated Christ to be sin

[Van]

Jesus was the Holy One in the tomb. Anyone who denies this truth is not presenting biblical views, but is rewriting scripture.

Again scripture says Jesus died. Claiming my view requires Jesus did not die is pure twaddle.

Jesus was the Holy One while in the tomb, before He was bodily resurrected. No verse was provided where Jesus was made not to be sin, therefore He was never made to be sin and He remained the Holy One through-out the ordeal.

The bogus claim Christ was made not to be sin when He was bodily resurrected ignores the fact He was the Holy One before He was resurrected, while in the tomb.

 

[Gup20]

Jesus was the Holy One in the tomb. Anyone who denies this truth is not presenting biblical views, but is rewriting scripture.

Again scripture says Jesus died. Claiming my view requires Jesus did not die is pure twaddle.

Jesus was the Holy One while in the tomb, before He was bodily resurrected. No verse was provided where Jesus was made not to be sin, therefore He was never made to be sin and He remained the Holy One through-out the ordeal.

The bogus claim Christ was made not to be sin when He was bodily resurrected ignores the fact He was the Holy One before He was resurrected, while in the tomb.

Since you've made no actual arguments here, I can only assume you've conceded all points.

 

[Van]

Since you've made no actual arguments here, I can only assume you've conceded all points.

If you say so Sir. It has been enlightening.

He treated the One knowing no sin to be sin for our sake so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[Gup20]

Jesus was the Holy One in the tomb. Anyone who denies this truth is not presenting biblical views, but is rewriting scripture.

Was he holy when he said "my God my God why have you forsaken me?" Was he holy when God forsook him on the cross because he became sin and it separated him from God?

Psa 22:1-6 NASB
1 For the choir director; upon Aijeleth Hashshahar. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. 2 O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. 3 Yet You are holy, O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel. 4 In You our fathers trusted; They trusted and You delivered them. 5 To You they cried out and were delivered; In You they trusted and were not disappointed. 6 But I am a worm and not a man, A reproach of men and despised by the people.
​

Here we see Jesus crying out and getting no help, no answer. He feels forsaken and separated from God. He relies on God's promise and saving grace offered to other men as his comfort. Jesus considers himself lower than these men.... not even qualified as a man but as a worm. He doesn't see himself as holy, but only God alone.

Again scripture says Jesus died. Claiming my view requires Jesus did not die is pure twaddle.

I believe that you accept the death and resurrection of Jesus. I am not saying you don't believe this, but that it is inconsistent. Righteousness is life. If one voluntarily gives up their life, they have given up their right to righteousness and holiness as well. They are inextricably linked.... just as sin and death are inextricably linked.

Not only did Jesus BECOME sin, but he BECAME a curse. Jesus was cursed by The Law because he was hung on a tree.

Jesus was the Holy One while in the tomb, before He was bodily resurrected.

Agreed. When he inherited righteousness, he inherited life. This doesn't negate the fact that he became sin on the cross prior to his death. He had to give up his holiness to die.

No verse was provided where Jesus was made not to be sin, therefore He was never made to be sin and He remained the Holy One through-out the ordeal.

Heb 13:20 NASB
20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, [even] Jesus our Lord,​

This is false. I told you of Hebrews 13:20 which says Jesus was raised from the dead by the covenant of faith.... the same covenant which makes all Christians righteous... Jesus was made NOT to be sin by exactly the same means as we are made NOT to be sin... by the exact same covenant where righteousness is applied to us to cover our sin. It should blow your mind when you consider that Jesus gave up his righteousness and allowed himself to be resurrected in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY that we will be resurrected...by exactly the same legal precedent... by exactly the same promise and covenant. He had complete confidence in that covenant! He proved salvation by faith is valid.

Gal 3:14-19 NASB
14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is [only] a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.​

I need you to pay close attention. This covenant God makes with Abraham IS THE EVERLASTING COVENANT spoken of in Hebrews 13:20. The everlasting covenant which made Jesus to be not sin. Consider: why does God promise salvation to Jesus Christ!!? Look above at Gal 3:16. This promise made to Abraham that he would be heir of the world was being made not just to Abraham, but to Christ! Gal 3:19 says "until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made." That seed or descendant is Jesus Christ.

Gen 15:5-6 NASB
5 And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.
Gen 17:7 NASB
7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.​

This is the everlasting covenant spoken of in Hebrews 13:20! This begs the question; why does God promise salvation to Jesus Christ!!? Why does God create a system whereby Christ (and us) can INHERIT righteousness through faith in the gospel, and then promise this righteousness as an everlasting covenant if Christ remained righteous throughout his death? Why does Jesus wait on God to resurrect him through the Abrahamic covenant of righteousness by faith rather than resurrect himself with his own righteousness? Read Psalm 22... does this sound like Jesus is using his own righteousness and holiness, or is he waiting on God to rescue him?

The bogus claim Christ was made not to be sin when He was bodily resurrected ignores the fact He was the Holy One before He was resurrected, while in the tomb.

Of course he was righteous... he needed to be righteous to get out of hell (just as we did). God did not abandon him to rot in hell... he freed him from hell through the blood of the everlasting covenant God made with Abraham.

Isa 53:4-12 NASB
4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being [fell] upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke [was due?] 9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting [Him] to grief; If He would render Himself [as] a guilt offering, He will see [His] offspring, He will prolong [His] days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see [it and] be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.​

We see here Jesus' soul experienced anguish as he offered himself as a guilt offering for sin. The iniquity of all us fell on him... God caused this. God was pleased to crush him rather than us... body soul and spirit. He bore our iniquities. He was numbered with the transgressors. He was smitten of God and afflicted. He justified us by bearing our iniquity.

We are the beneficiaries of a system designed to restore righteousness to Jesus Christ after he gave up his righteousness and holiness by becoming obedient to death and becoming a curse for us that we might inherit His righteousness.

 

[Van]

Repeating your assertions over and over does not move the ball.

First you claimed Christ regained His Holiness when He was resurrected, not you claim when He died.
But no verse says either one of them happened.

Jesus was fulfilling prophecy when He cried out, fulling Psalm 22. For God to interrupt communication does not make Christ unholy.

Most folks grin when someone asserts the ability to read the mind of God.

My view has Christ never becoming sin, only our sin sacrifice, thus He never lost or laid aside His holiness or His righteousness. Again the claim that He had to lose His righteousness in order to die, rather than take on the penalty of sin for the whole world is without basis in scripture.

Jesus did become the curse, the penalty of sin when He DIED.

I see you quoted Hebrews 13:20 yet again. It does not say Christ was not holy before, during, and after He suffered and died on the cross. You kept simply reading into the text what it does not say nor suggest.

It blows my mind to read over and over your assertions not found in scripture.

 

[Gup20]

Repeating your assertions over and over does not move the ball.

When you respond to a single verse I post, perhaps I can stop posting them.

It's not an assertion when I provide scripture to back it up. Since I provide scripture for each and every point I make, that is called an "argument." Since you ignore scripture in your posts (both in not presenting scripture of your own and in not refuting my interpretation of the scriptures I present), your posts would classify as assertions.

First you claimed Christ regained His Holiness when He was resurrected, not you claim when He died.
But no verse says either one of them happened.

Jesus was resurrected in spirit before being resurrected in body. This is typical with the covenant of faith... the covenant that resurrected Jesus. This is our experience as well. We are credited with righteousness until our physical resurrection where we receive our full inheritance.

Eph 1:13-14 NASB
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.​

Just because you ignored the verses I presented, doesn't mean I didn't present them. This just means you are unwilling to consider the truth.

Jesus was fulfilling prophecy when He cried out, fulling Psalm 22. For God to interrupt communication does not make Christ unholy.

Once again, you have ignored the content of the scripture entirely in your response. It's unsurprising and unconvincing. You have ignored the content of Psalm 22 entirely.

Most folks grin when someone asserts the ability to read the mind of God.

There is no need to read God's mind when He explicitly tells us what he is thinking. Yet again, your response is completely devoid of reason, you've refused to even read the scripture I posted, and then you pretended like I didn't post any scripture.

My view has Christ never becoming sin, only our sin sacrifice, thus He never lost or laid aside His holiness or His righteousness. Again the claim that He had to lose His righteousness in order to die, rather than take on the penalty of sin for the whole world is without basis in scripture.

The passage I quoted from Isaiah 53 refuted you no less than 12 times.

Jesus did become the curse, the penalty of sin when He DIED.

The wages of sin is death. Jesus became sin and so he died.

I see you quoted Hebrews 13:20 yet again. It does not say Christ was not holy before, during, and after He suffered and died on the cross. You kept simply reading into the text what it does not say nor suggest.

It blows my mind to read over and over your assertions not found in scripture.

I quote Hebrews 13:20 to demonstrate that Christ did not resurrect himself, but he was resurrected by the covenant of faith designed to impart righteousness to the believer. Why would Jesus need to be resurrected by a covenant designed to impart rightousness if he was resurrecting himself, and why would he need righteousness imparted at all if he kept his own? You're not thinking.

Speaking about that covenant, Paul says:

Gal 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.​

So the covenant that raises Christ from the dead (according to Hebrews 13:20) is designed to impart life through imparting righteousness. Why would Jesus need/allow himself to be resurrected by a covenant which resurrects him by imparting righteousness if he still had his own? The answer: he wouldn't need to. But he did. So we know he gave up his own righteousness. Furthermore, where did the righteousness given to Abraham come from? I say again, that if God could simply invent righteousness out of thin air and legally give to to whom he please, then there would have been no need for Jesus to come and die. The righteousness given to Abraham in Genesis 15 came from Jesus Christ. It was the righteousness Jesus gave up by becoming obedient to death, becoming sin, and becoming a curse for us.

Isaiah 53 says in at least 12 different ways that Christ became sin. You didn't deal with a single instance.

 

[Van]

You did not support your bogus assertions with any scripture, you read your bogus assertions into the passage.

Take Ephesians 1:13-14, it does not say Jesus was made to be sin.

And then when I point out there is no support, you post, I ignored it.

He treated the One knowing no sin to be sin for our sake so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Christ died on the cross.

Christ is the Holy One of God now and forever.

 

[Gup20]

You did not support your bogus assertions with any scripture, you read your bogus assertions into the passage.

Take Ephesians 1:13-14, it does not say Jesus was made to be sin.

It's obvious you didn't even read what I wrote about Ephesians 1.

He treated the One knowing no sin to be sin for our sake so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Christ died on the cross.

Christ is the Holy One of God now and forever.

Your interpretation is completely incorrect. The phrase you translate "treated to be" is poieō. The correct translation is "made" or "to make." It's the same word when Jesus says "follow me and I will make you fishers of men" or in Matthew 5:36 where it says “for you cannot make one hair white or black." Or in Matthew 7:17 where it says “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. We wouldn't say in any of these that it would make sense to say "follow me and I will treat you like you are fishers of men" or "you cannot treat one hair on your head as if it were white or black" or "every good tree treats itself as if it bears good fruit" so your interpretation is woefully inaccurate.

Moreover, there are 12 different ways that it says Jesus became sin and bore our sin and took upon himself our sin is said in Hebrew in Isaiah 53, so you can't use your theory on the Greek translation to rescue your idea.

I'm sorry.... it simply doesn't say it that way. It says it exactly the way that nearly every Bible translation translates it... that God caused him who knew no sin to become sin on our behalf.

 

[Van]

To take away the sin of the world does not mean to be made sin. Saying the Greek word's range of meaning does not included "declared, treated, purposed, and dealt with" simply ignores where the word is so translated. Next you conflate bearing or carrying our sin with being made sin. But there is no actual support for the assertion.