Headcoverings for Women

[SaggyWoman]

(SaggyWoman chases after Tiny Tim, grabbing by his hairy headcovering, flinging him to the ground, causing his guitar to go flying. You can hear him faintly singing.)

Tiptoe through the tulips.

 

[donnA]

In this same chapter of Scripture (1Cor.11) is described how we should observe the Lord's Supper. Since that instruction is given no where else in the Bible, I suppose we shouldn't observe it. It is just an anomaly of the Corinthian church--only in their culture, right?

No, actually your wrong it is in other paces in the NT.

You might want to do an historic background of Corinth

he doesn't beleive this has anything to do with what bible writers wrote or what they mean, and the first peoples who read it having understanding.

tinytim=

To divorce Scripture from it's history and cultural settings is the way false doctrines begin...

On that note, I would love to hear what you all think about "headship" and in that respect why you do or don't believe headcoverings are necessary.

headcovering in no way means a woman is submissive, same as a woman who does wear a headcovering does not mean she isn't submissive. from expereince on this board tinytim is right, a lot of covered women, and those who support it, see it as spirituality, and those not covered are less spiritual, less obedient to God, not pleasing to God, at that point they believe one must earn God's grace, which we have been told here more then once. this iwll always graduate into, uncovered women aren't even christians, never fails, this is what it comes too. Spiritual pride. We have seen it with every headcovered topic, from every headcovered proponet, since I have been on this board.

 

[annsni]

Can I just ask something.

In our culture, does covering your head tell everyone that you are under someone's authority? If I see a woman with a covering on her head, I see her following some sort of religious belief usually but in our culture, it is not a sign of authority in the least. Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them why the Amish women wear coverings. They won't be able to tell you in the vast majority of cases.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I know in my culture, I don't wear headcoverings because I get hot, and I have to release the heat and rather than preaching, I have to not wear a head covering. Because, you know it is a sin for women to preach, so I feel that not wearing a head covering is the lesser of two evils.

 

[DHK]

Can I just ask something.

In our culture, does covering your head tell everyone that you are under someone's authority? If I see a woman with a covering on her head, I see her following some sort of religious belief usually but in our culture, it is not a sign of authority in the least. Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them why the Amish women wear coverings. They won't be able to tell you in the vast majority of cases.

Why would you walk up to anyone on the street?
Paul was addressing problems in the churches. They had written him a letter concerning various problems. Now he is answering them, one by one. One of them concerns the problem of wearing headcoverings in the church services.

 

[DHK]

Here are reasons Paul gives why every woman should wear a head covering in the church services:

1. Because of the headship of man (vs 3-6)
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
--The Scripture clearly teaches a principle of headship, whether we want to believe it or not. The head of the woman is the man. The woman ought to keep her head covered for that reason alone. If she doesn't it is to her shame.


1 Corinthians 11:6 For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.



2. Because of God's order in creation (vs 8.9)
1 Corinthians 11:8-9 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man: for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man:
--It is also a symbol of order. The man first, the woman second.



3. Because of the angels (v 10)
1 Corinthians 11:10 for this cause ought the woman to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.
--We don't have to understand the reason; we must accept it by faith. But the Lord says it is because of the angels. In other Scriptures it says that the angels desire to look into the salvation of man. They have not been redeemed. They don't understand it.



4. Because of a sense of propriety (v 13)
1 Corinthians 11:13 Judge ye in yourselves: is it seemly that a woman pray unto God unveiled?
--It is just the proper thing to do. That is what Paul is saying here. It is a rhetorical question that doesn't require an answer. It is just the proper thing to do. You shouldn't have to be told this.


5. Because of the natural order of things (the distinction between male & female and the woman's natural covering; vs 14,15)
1 Corinthians 11:14-15 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
--Nature teaches you this. In almost all cultures women have long hair, not men.

It is a shame for a man to have long hair. This is true in almost every culture. Nature teaches it. It is the natural order of things. It is very beautiful to see long hair on a woman.



6. Because of the practice of all the churches (v 16)
1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seemeth to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
--This is Paul's strongest argument yet. If you are contentious about this doctrine, don't stay here. You are not welcome. We have no such custom of being contentious. Neither do the churches of God have any custom of being contentious. The churches of God obey this command, this ordinance (verse 2), that I have given to them. If you are not going to accept it; then there is no place for you here.



Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

[sag38]

I would suppose then that 99% of women have no place in the church (at least here in the United States). And, if we are going to apply the last verse then why are you having anything to do with us who don't buy into your head covering interpretation? After all, are we not being contentious?

 

[DHK]

I would suppose then that 99% of women have no place in the church (at least here in the United States). And, if we are going to apply the last verse then why are you having anything to do with us who don't buy into your head covering interpretation? After all, are we not being contentious?

I just gave you Scripture. It is up to you what to do with it.

 

[Zenas]

DHK, you definitely have the high ground in this discussion but I am curious, do the women in your church wear head coverings?

 

[DHK]

DHK, you definitely have the high ground in this discussion but I am curious, do the women in your church wear head coverings?

I recently changed my membership.
In the church that I used to pastor the majority of the women wore a head-covering. It is an issue that is not enforced, but taught; just the same as what we would consider to be modest clothing. Change must come from the heart.
In the church that I now attend my wife wears a headcovering, along with about four others. It is a small church, however, less than a hundred.

 

[Marcia]

I was in a church for 6 months where the women wore headcoverings. After attending a few weeks, my sister and I started wearing a white cloth on our heads. I have to say, that it was not natural and we did it mainly because the other women did. We had read the 1 Cor 11 passage but it still did not make sense to us (we were both new believers at the time). We eventually left that church (not because of the headcoverings).

The pastor of our new church said his view of this passage is that the headcovering represented the symbol of headship of the man over the woman, and that the principle here is for the women to be submissive to male leadership in the church. He did not think women had to wear a headcovering to express this - their attitude is what counts.

Some might be interested to know that according to the notes for the NET Bible, there is no word in the passage that means a headcovering - the word is translated as "symbol of authority."

Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.). The Greek word he uses here (ἐξουσία exousia; translated symbol of authority) could be (1) a figure of speech that may substitute the result (the right to participate in worship) for the appropriate appearance that makes it possible (the covered head). Or (2) it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church).

Also, the NET bible points out that a woman's hair is clearly not the "symbol of authority":

No word for veil or head covering occurs in vv. 3-14 (see the note on authority in v. 10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in v. 15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. v. 10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. vv. 5, 6, 7, 10, 13). If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)? This suggests that the covering is not the same as the hair itself.

I think the godly submissive attitude toward male leadership in the church is what pleases God, whether or not the woman wears a headcovering. I do not think she needs to unless she feels it is something she should do.

 

[Jim1999]

It is strange that Jewish men cover their heads in the house of God, and women do not wear hats. Gentile men remove their hats indoors and when greeting a woman....Are we submissive at that moment?

I thought these discussions played themselves out years ago.

The headcovering for a woman in Canada in winter is a wool toque! It will even keep the ears from freezing.

By the way, in Paul's time prostitutes had their heads shaved and they wore headcovering to hide this fact in public.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[HankD]

In 1 Corinthians Chapter 6, at least 2 words are used of those who had practiced immorality of a carnal nature.

"And such were some of you...".

After reading the problems there, it seems the Corinthians were having difficulty shedding the habits of the past.

They were saved from from a religious culture which viewed these practices as acceptable.

In certain of the Greek mystery cults which had mingled with the ancient canaanite rite, immoral temple ritual was not only accepted but in some cases required.


HankD

 

[IFB Mole]

As young convert I attended an AnaBaptist Church (Mennonite) and when the woman prayed that did cover their heads with a scarf generally and some used what looked like a "doily". Furthermore they never had a woman sing solos or in groups because at that moment (in the context of a worship service) all the attention was on a woman and that is unbiblical since they would be "speaking" (in song) which is unbiblical. Singing was almost exclusively congregational.

I must say, until I moved away, those folks were some of the most godly, humble, kind and genuinely sincere brethren I ever had the pleasure of associating with. MAN o man, did they know thier Bible!!

 

[Brads70]

DHK I gotta say your making me think! ( which is a good thing!) I was a member of a brethren Church when in my teens and they wore head coverings. I also remember the younger women/girls rebelling against this I believe it was because it wasn't fashionable and maybe a little bit also because of they had a bit of a problem being submissive?
I'm now a member of a Baptist church and no head coverings here......

 

[Jerome]

Funny how headcoverings shrink over time. What's with the little ketchup cup thing Mennonite women attach to the back of their heads? Ditto the coaster-sized yarmulkes Jewish men pin on.

 

[HankD]

Funny how headcoverings shrink over time. What's with the little ketchup cup thing Mennonite women attach to the back of their heads? Ditto the coaster-sized yarmulkes Jewish men pin on.

Tradition!!

Ala Fiddler on the Roof.

HankD

 

[Mexdeaf]

Boy, does this bring back memories of my childhood upbringing in a Brethren church.

 

[Oldtimer]

Brings up memories here, too. Back when every "well dressed" woman wore a hat with matching gloves, handbag, and shoes. My mother used to do it when she got ready for church. She had sets in every color to go with her dresses.

Remember all the women complimenting each other on their hats. Back then you couldn't wear the same hat every Sunday either. If you wore one just for a head covering, the gloved hands would be covering whispering mouths.

Before my mom passed away, the "style" changed. Her hats disappeared, along with the gloved hand whispers. Along with the "What a wonderful hat. Where'd you get it?" conversations I used to have to hear every Sunday morning. When the hats disappeared, the pride of ownership disappeared, too.

 

[Gina B]

I am more comfortable praying in my own home if I am wearing a head covering.

My prayer shawl was lost when I moved and I miss it, but I also haven't gotten another one.

Still, I miss it. I'd not make others uncomfortable with it though and wouldn't wear it to my Baptist church as it would just draw attention and that's the opposite of what I'd want, so I never wore one in a Baptist church and wouldn't. (but have in churches where it does not distract)


I don't think of it as a requirement though. Just my personal preference. And as long as I'm doing it, I don't get the tiny little ones. I wear a full one that actually covers my whole head and hair even if my hair is down, and since my hair is long, that's one long shawl. I started looking for one a couple months ago that was similar to what I lost, but looks like I'll have to order one online.