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HEALING

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Steven_15, Apr 29, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Physical healing is not in the Atonement, as it is not a promise towards all the redeemed!
     
    #41 Yeshua1, May 1, 2020
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, but we cannot command God to obey us, as word of faith teaches!
     
    #42 Yeshua1, May 1, 2020
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    no
     
    #43 HankD, May 1, 2020
  4. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Analogies are used to support a theory. You haven't stated your counter theory to mine.

    Analogies make no sense without a theory.

    My theory is this: You seem to assume human freewill decides human history & God is a puppet!

    What is your's?
     
    #44 Steven_15, May 1, 2020
  5. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    She didn't receive without faith.
     
    #45 Steven_15, May 1, 2020
  6. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    So you agree you have faith (assurance) you are saved & Jesus could heal?
     
    #46 Steven_15, May 1, 2020
  7. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    So how was Epaphroditus healed?

    Without faith in the atonement which also heals, God is not pleased.

    Healing or salvation is not the primary issue. Faith in Christ's atonement which pleases God is.
     
    #47 Steven_15, May 1, 2020
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    yes - with healing COULD HEAL does not necessitate WILL HEAL.
    Of course healing is guaranteed in the resurrection.
    So in that way healing is part of the atonement.
     
    #48 HankD, May 2, 2020
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  9. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    If salvation is part of the atonement and we are saved now, why not healing which you agree is also part of the atonement?

    Secondly, "Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life (John 11:25)". If healing is guaranteed in the resurrection and Jesus is the resurrection, why not healing be guaranteed in the now?
     
    #49 Steven_15, May 2, 2020
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    because we are not always privy to the specifics of the active will of God.
    "Thy will be done" also applies to our personal thorn(s) in the flesh as we make our pilgrimage.
     
    #50 HankD, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
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  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    we are completely healed in the resurrection.
    is the final resurrection not part of the atonement?

    As we ascend in the rapture the scripture declares that we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
    Are we not healed in that "change"?
     
    #51 HankD, May 2, 2020
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  12. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Were you privy to the specifics of the active will of God regarding salvation alone and not regarding healing?

    Is "not being privy" another way of saying "Help me my unbelief about healing" according to Mark 9:24?

    Paul's thorn was due to exalting himself (2 Corinthians 12:7) rather than exalt Christ's grace through faith. Are you exalting your self efforts, doctors etc for healing?
     
    #52 Steven_15, May 2, 2020
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    yes.

    no.

    are you?
     
    #53 HankD, May 2, 2020
  14. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Being privy to God's will on salvation and not being privy to healing is selective and denying the latter as unbelief of the atonement also makes no sense.

    Faith in Christ's atonement for both salvation and healing is exaltation of Christ.

    Bringing in Paul's thorn to justify being in sickness & absence of healing isn't biblical.
     
    #54 Steven_15, May 2, 2020
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    then ask for healing of your senses.

    Agreed

    Prove it.
     
    #55 HankD, May 2, 2020
  16. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    When Christ's atonement caters to both salvation of soul and healing of body, selectively denying assurance of healing needs healing not my senses.

    Paul's thorn was to prevent him from self-exaltation & help him exalt Christ's grace through faith. So your thorn simply is an indicator you aren't believing Christ's atonement for healing.
     
    #56 Steven_15, May 2, 2020
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    i have prayed for both you and your senses

    how can it be one thing for Paul but another for me?
    you have flaws in your reasoning.
     
    #57 HankD, May 2, 2020
  18. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    If you agree Christ's atonement includes bodily healing but deny the assurance (faith), it's I who need to pray for you.

    It's not different. As paul had the inclination to exalt himself and suffered a thorn, your thorn could be nothing but for exalting yourself in the area of healing. You haven't yet stated the reason for your thorn.
     
    #58 Steven_15, May 2, 2020
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Every good thing is from God and part of the atonement.

    James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

    That's not for you to know.
     
    #59 HankD, May 2, 2020
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  20. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    The issue isn't about good things but about assurance of healing in Christ's atonement for every believer.

    Using paul's thorn to justify being sick is unbiblical.
     
    #60 Steven_15, May 2, 2020
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