thegospelgeek
New Member
Is that a true statement? Can it supported with vereses?
Is there concrete evidence that Paul's thorn in the flesh was an illness or disease?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Healings? Educate me!
- Thread starter thegospelgeek
- Start date
I actually have the book, never got round to reading it. I have over 100 christian books I'll never get round to reading. I did listen to a series by ML-Jones on the gifts of the Spirit, could have covered the same issues in that series which I really enjoyed.
I wonder though, that what these folks are calling "gifts of healing" yet refer to the Apostles as their "proof" are really talking about having the sign gifts rather than HS healing gifts. Something I've thought about.
For me its an important distinction, that if God wills absolutely that ALL (christians) be healthy HOW does God accomplish this task? 1. God heals all automatically. 2. God heals all as a response to prayer. 3. God heals through men, such as those whom have the gift. 4. God heals those whom believe He would heal them. 5. God heals those whom deal with their "root cause" spiritual condition such as so claimed curses brought on by disobedience. 6. God heals when demons are cast out.
Anyway.
Darren
Last edited by a moderator:
If I tell you then you wont read the book, right?
I have way too many books, working for Australia's largest christian bookstore, I've gotten so much free stuff that I can't take in any more as I've no more room. My wife says we need to just bring all the boxes to church and give everything away. Problem is I have too many books by charismatics and CD's from boofheads that I would be embarrassed at the accusation that I follow their teachings or listen to their sermons/music when I don't.
Thank you for pointing out the book though.
Darren
Tom Butler
New Member
I wrote: Sometimes the answer to a prayer for healing is No.
David fasted and prayed for his sick boy, the child of Bathsheba. The baby died.
I prayed for healing for my father and mother when they became ill. They both died.
Our church held an intense prayer meeting for a member near death. Her fever broke while we were praying. The doctors said it defied explanation. She's still alive 40 years later. Sometimes the answer to prayer for healing is Yes.
I'm sure you, and nearly everyone else on this board could relate similar stories.
Now, there is a sense in which God answered Yes to my prayers for Mother and Dad. He gave them what I've heard called "the ultimate healing." He took away their pain and sickness and called them to his presence.
In 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, Paul wrote that three times he pleaded with the Lord to take it way, but God said no.
Either way, illness or something else, Paul prayed for relief and was refused. The principle is the same.
On the other hand, in Acts 28, Paul was on the island of Melita. The son of the island ruler, Publius, became deathly ill. Paul prayed over him and laid hands on him and the son was healed. Yet God would not grant Paul's prayers for relief from his thorn.
All I can say is, if you pray for someone's healing, and he gets well, feel free to connect the two things and give God the credit. If you pray and the illness continues, think of Job 1:21. That's where God had allowed Satan to attack Job, kill his family, take away his wealth and strike his body with boils. Job's response:
"....naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."
David fasted and prayed for his sick boy, the child of Bathsheba. The baby died.
I prayed for healing for my father and mother when they became ill. They both died.
Our church held an intense prayer meeting for a member near death. Her fever broke while we were praying. The doctors said it defied explanation. She's still alive 40 years later. Sometimes the answer to prayer for healing is Yes.
I'm sure you, and nearly everyone else on this board could relate similar stories.
Now, there is a sense in which God answered Yes to my prayers for Mother and Dad. He gave them what I've heard called "the ultimate healing." He took away their pain and sickness and called them to his presence.
Nothing concrete, of course. Some speculate it might have been poor eyesight. And I heard a new one this past week. The writer of our Sunday School lesson suggested it might have been the church at Corinth, which gave him fits.
In 2 Corinthians 12:7-10, Paul wrote that three times he pleaded with the Lord to take it way, but God said no.
Either way, illness or something else, Paul prayed for relief and was refused. The principle is the same.
On the other hand, in Acts 28, Paul was on the island of Melita. The son of the island ruler, Publius, became deathly ill. Paul prayed over him and laid hands on him and the son was healed. Yet God would not grant Paul's prayers for relief from his thorn.
All I can say is, if you pray for someone's healing, and he gets well, feel free to connect the two things and give God the credit. If you pray and the illness continues, think of Job 1:21. That's where God had allowed Satan to attack Job, kill his family, take away his wealth and strike his body with boils. Job's response:
"....naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."
Tom Butler
New Member
By the way, there's a pretty good discussion of the thorn in the flesh over in the thread "Was Paul Married."
One poster thinks it might have been his wife.
One poster thinks it might have been his wife.
Ha Ha!
Well just to give consolation there is no being married nor given in marriage hereafter....... but are like the angels. :smilewinkgrin:
Last edited by a moderator:
May I relate a personal situation. I was a preacher and professor, but suffered a severe stroke which took my speech, short-term memory, all my right side and eventually both hands, and I almost died.
Prayer was offered. I survived the night, but still had no speech and barely remembered who I was. I prayed. My family prayed. My church prayed. Nothing seemed to happen. Forget about future ministry and teaching was definitely history.
Three years to the day of my stroke, I preached at my church in Kingston, Ontario, to the absolute amazement of the congregation. When I finished 35 minutes of preaching, my wife said I never once looked at my notes..amazing.
Why did God heal me? I was old and had virtually completed my teaching and preaching ministry. I thought long about this.
God opened a new ministry to this partly crippled, and mumbling fool. I started to reach out to the elderly shutins and especially those who suffered strokes; people I hardly had time for before. I was just too busy with other things.
Did God make time for me by allowing my stroke? Did God allow my partial healing to open this new ministry? Looking back over 15 years I can say I think so.
The whole purpose of my adding this story is evidence that God works to His own good purposes, and to His own glory. Everything I have accomplished has been to His glory and when a little spark of pride enters my feeble brain, I am reminded that my hands are both paralyzed, my right leg quits after about 20-30 paces, and I forget what day it is.
This to me is healing, and I give my precious Lord Jesus all the glory, all the time.........I hate paralysis!!!!!
Cheers, and bless,
Jim
Prayer was offered. I survived the night, but still had no speech and barely remembered who I was. I prayed. My family prayed. My church prayed. Nothing seemed to happen. Forget about future ministry and teaching was definitely history.
Three years to the day of my stroke, I preached at my church in Kingston, Ontario, to the absolute amazement of the congregation. When I finished 35 minutes of preaching, my wife said I never once looked at my notes..amazing.
Why did God heal me? I was old and had virtually completed my teaching and preaching ministry. I thought long about this.
God opened a new ministry to this partly crippled, and mumbling fool. I started to reach out to the elderly shutins and especially those who suffered strokes; people I hardly had time for before. I was just too busy with other things.
Did God make time for me by allowing my stroke? Did God allow my partial healing to open this new ministry? Looking back over 15 years I can say I think so.
The whole purpose of my adding this story is evidence that God works to His own good purposes, and to His own glory. Everything I have accomplished has been to His glory and when a little spark of pride enters my feeble brain, I am reminded that my hands are both paralyzed, my right leg quits after about 20-30 paces, and I forget what day it is.
This to me is healing, and I give my precious Lord Jesus all the glory, all the time.........I hate paralysis!!!!!
Cheers, and bless,
Jim
Here is a guy who was teaching on Psalm 103 about healing "don't put God in a box" and his voice was restored...flipped him out. I believe this is a true recorded message and my pastor agrees. One of the VERY FEW I would believe was a miracle on the spot. Here is the audio clip http://www.nuvoice.org/ BTW it's called a miracle because they don't happen often.......otherwise it would be called the Norm!
Last edited by a moderator:
Here are my challenges to people who claim to be have the gift of healing:
1. The bible says that people were placing the sick out in the streets so that maybe Peter's shadow might fall on them as he passed by. In other words, Peter was blessed by God to heal so many of the sick, that people just desired to have his shadow fall on him, that perhaps even his shadow falling on them would heal them. Apparently there was no doubt Peter was blessed with this gift and that he put it to good use in healing huge amounts of people. If you are a healer, get busy. Start visiting hospitals and healing people by the multitudes.
2. I can't remember one time in the bible where a healer set up a healing service and charged admission or tried to raise money through healing. Instead, sick people came to the healer or he came to them and healed them right where they were. If you are a healer, you should imitate this practice.
1. The bible says that people were placing the sick out in the streets so that maybe Peter's shadow might fall on them as he passed by. In other words, Peter was blessed by God to heal so many of the sick, that people just desired to have his shadow fall on him, that perhaps even his shadow falling on them would heal them. Apparently there was no doubt Peter was blessed with this gift and that he put it to good use in healing huge amounts of people. If you are a healer, get busy. Start visiting hospitals and healing people by the multitudes.
2. I can't remember one time in the bible where a healer set up a healing service and charged admission or tried to raise money through healing. Instead, sick people came to the healer or he came to them and healed them right where they were. If you are a healer, you should imitate this practice.